I plead for a restraining order

[Jacobus Loki]

Lord Arbiter,

It has been brought to my attention that the House of Mortis is planning to attempt to steal land from the House of Kildare.

I submit this in evidence:
http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 33#p154833

They justify this by claiming that Lord Jonas' personal antipathy for certain actions of the current occupant of the Golden Mango Throne entitle them to loot and steal the property of fellow Shirithians. They also claim the right to interfere with the internal affairs of Kildare.

I ask that the Arbiter order all "Mortician" forces to stay at least 50 km away from the Kildarian border.

Thank you.

[Harvey Steffke]

You kidding me with this? Kildare has declared a lack of loyalty towards the crown. They are a rebel province. Your own association with them and lack of condemnation of your leader's actions brands you as a rebel yourself. The restraining order you ask for should be placed upon yourself in the form of chains and a small prison cell.

[Jacobus Loki]

Then you admit in open court to planning invasion, robbery and theft?

You admit to plotting to damage and destroy a brother house by force?

Shame!

[Harvey Steffke]

And where did I admit any such thing? Your actions are laughable. Go drag your name through the mud in some less reputable establishment.

[Erik Mortis]

As Head of House Mortis I will answer these charges.

House Mortis, in the defense of the throne has begun planning of action against the renegade House of Kildare, whom has called for rebellion against the throne. LB: VII. D. 1. says "Rebellion to overthrow a legitimate Kaiser, Duke, or Lesser Noble is prohibited." http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=13543 shows that Kildare has called for the overthrow of the Kaiseress, and a revocation of loyalty to said Supreme Noble.

House Mortis is simply exercising its privilege to defend the throne and potentially profit by said actions. This is hardly a matter for the Judex, and would ask the Judex set aside this request. It is sad that a House should look to overthrow a government, then look to that government for protection from the consequences of its own actions.

I thank the Arbiter for his time.

[Jacobus Loki]

The throne is in no danger from the personal opinion of one man.

The Spirit of Shireroth is in dire danger from those who proclaim their devotion to law with one hand, and then on the other hand prepare to (virtually) rob, kill and steal.

And, if rebellion, merely than the expression of opinion is considered to be the crime, then
under

# 1.7.4 D. Rebellion.

1a-a. The maximum penalty for this offense shall be honorary Yardistani citizenship and consideration for induction into the Lodge of Mischevious Intent

It says nothing about invasion, theft and war as a punishment.

To the contrary,

.......that encourages them to adopt a house head that is going to show a bit more loyalty to the crown and a bit more prudence in what ha declares.

http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 48#p154848

shows intent to overthrow Dutch Jonas, and is a violation of the same law.

[Erik Mortis]

The views of Jonas are not just those of an individual, as he is the head of a House Minor. Regardless, I motion that this entire affair is a matter between houses. As such is not worthy of the time and energy of the Judex, and should still be dismissed accordingly.

[Jacobus Loki]

At least the Lord Dutch should be able to be heard in the court.

[Andreas the Wise]

As Head of House Mortis I will answer these charges.

House Mortis, in the defense of the throne has begun planning of action against the renegade House of Kildare, whom has called for rebellion against the throne. LB: VII. D. 1. says "Rebellion to overthrow a legitimate Kaiser, Duke, or Lesser Noble is prohibited." http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=13543 shows that Kildare has called for the overthrow of the Kaiseress, and a revocation of loyalty to said Supreme Noble.

House Mortis is simply exercising its privilege to defend the throne and potentially profit by said actions. This is hardly a matter for the Judex, and would ask the Judex set aside this request. It is sad that a House should look to overthrow a government, then look to that government for protection from the consequences of its own actions.

I thank the Arbiter for his time.

As a Margrave, I would address the Head of House Mortis in the presence of the Arbiter.

Lord Mortis, the law you quote in support of your own action thereby condemns the justification provided by the rest of your house for your action. You claim that Jonas, as Baron and the legitimate head of House Kildare, speaks for all of Kildare and therefore his expression of being unable to remain loyal to the throne personally is an act of rebellion to overthrow the legitimate Kaiser, which is illegal under LB: VII. D. 1. Note this carefully. You say that the whole House is responsible for the actions and words of its head because he is the Head. However, the very law you have quoted would indicate that for House Kildare to rebel against their Head because of his actions would be illegal. You suggest that it is now effectively illegal to be in House Kildare - either we are culpable in the actions of our Head because he is our head, and therefore acting illegally; or we must overthrow our head - our legimitate head - and must thereby act illegally. Whether or not the Imperial Government should deal with Jonas' actions does not matter. Since you declare war in order to teach the members of House Kildare the consequences of their action, I kindly ask that you provide a logically coherent reason in justification for your invasion and what you would wish the members of House Kildare to do instead. At the moment your justification is self-contradictory - you have declared us in a position of illegality whatever we do. And I would hate to think that a Duke of Shireroth did not have the intelligence to detect a basic logical fallacy.

Regards,
Your rationally inclined fellow noble,
Margrave Cla'Udi

OOC: You're all ******** for declaring war on me in the middle of exams. Not nice at all.

[Harvey Steffke]

My dear friend, you would not be in rebellion against your Dutch. That would clearly be illegal as you have stated. Instead, you would be fully supporting the Imperial Government and its agents in bringing a rebel against the throne and who is holding a position without the grace of the Kaiseress to justice.

Semantics games aside, it's your problem how you proceed in legality. We did not put you in the position you are in now. Perhaps putting pressure on your leadership to do the right thing is your only course of action and the only way to prevent war.

[Andreas the Wise]

Harvey, my main point was that you and Erik just said "Oh look, Jonas has calmly sat down and said, 'I'm not sure I can be loyal to the Kaiseress anymore, but this is a delicate matter so I'll ask your advice,' Jacobus said 'I agree', Corey and I said 'We disagree, it's not as serious as you think, we think you're overreacting and the Kaiseress was fine', Jonas listened to our comments and concluded, 'I'm sorry, but I still feel I cannot remain loyal to the Kaiseress - this is just my personal decision' AND THEREFORE THE WHOLE HOUSE IS IN REBELLION AGAINST THE KAISERESS AND WE MUST CRUSH THEM."

Actually, you didn't quite say it like that. You said it more like, "Oh look, Jonas is no longer loyal to the Kaiseress, and he's a Head of House. THEREFORE HE'S CLEARLY SCREAMED "REBELLION" AND ALL OF HOUSE KILDARE ARE REBELS AND MUST BE CRUSHED."

Either way, what would have been the appropriate response was "So we'll give this at least twenty four hours to see how Andreas and Corey respond and whether Jonas remains Head of House Kildare or resigns before leaping to conclusions and messing up Andreas' study time."

So yeah. My post above in this thread was probably the least necessary of the posts I sat down and clearly worded, but this was the first topic I got to. The main point is that it would be nice if you actually gave the rest of the house a chance to respond to Jonas instead of claiming we're all culpable rebels and you must go to war with us.

[Harvey Steffke]

Oh, you're all pretty clearly rebel scum. But as for the war, last I checked it was still in the planning stage and nobody was attacking anyone. We're giving you guys the time you need to see if you can make the right choices. I guess it all just depends on what Jonas does at this point.

[Jonas]

Such a pressure.

If we would really getting a war on our hands, can't we wait till Andreas and I are done with exams?

[Daniel Farewell]

ORDER!

I will go through this once I get home.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

I think this should be handled between Mortis and Kildare, and only include the Imperial Government as a last resort. It should also be noted that Mr. Loki does not represent House Kildare in any way.

[Jacobus Loki]

No, I do not. I petitioned the court as an emergency was occurring, and now that His Grace is awarte of the situation, I become a spectator.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

I once again note that you come to seek the help of this institution that you have a history of not supporting. Just a curious observation.

[Jacobus Loki]

That's why I did it.

[Daniel Farewell]

Jacobus Loki,

What is the state of your petition?

[Jonas]

Jacobus Loki,

What is the state of your petition?

WE DEMAND THE LANDS OF MORTIS! THEY SHOULD BE CRUSHE... errr... ehm... is this case still valid?

[Harvey Steffke]

I believe the good Loki is LOA'd until Monday.

[Andreas the Wise]

Jacobus Loki,

What is the state of your petition?

WE DEMAND THE LANDS OF MORTIS! THEY SHOULD BE CRUSHE... errr... ehm... is this case still valid?

Was it ever valid?

[Jacobus Loki]

I was just holding the fort until the Dutch could respond to the unprovoked aggression of the Morticians, and to give me something to do besides launching cruise missiles on Cerce.