Tri-Cit Modification Act

[Malliki]

An Act to amend the LawBook:

To add LB Chapter IX, B:
6. If a person does not meet the criteria set down in 1. and 2., butit is deemed that the person would be a positive contribution to Shireroth as a citizen, the Kaiser may approve the citizenship. The maximum number of citizenships for that particular citizen is then fixed at that level.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I'm against this.

There are certain people like Ryan who I could see this act as being seriously useful for.

I could also see lots of people with five or six citizenships applying, begging the Kaiser for special treatment, and the Kaiser not wanting to say "Well, you're not as cool as Ryan is". Or, if the Kaiser does say it, the person gets really mad and we make a new enemy. Once we have this in place, the temptation to use it all the time will be overwhelming.

What I see as an alternative to this act is Honorary Citizenship. We already have this policy, although I don't know exactly what it entails. Whenever someone is a really close friend of Shireroth who can't join us for one reason or another, we award them Honorary Citizenship, which makes them more or less citizens. This captures the "exception to the tri-cit rule" spirit that you're going for, but it uses a term that makes it very clear we're only giving it to a few extremely deserving people. There's less of an opportunity for some random person to say "Make me an honorary citizen will you?"

[Malliki]

This suggestion was mostly intended to open up the debate. We don't have to abolish Tri-Cit just to correct some of the problems. I agree with the honorary citizenship thing, and I believe it should be codified in the LawBook.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Abolish the tri-cit or leave it (and honorary citizenship) alone.

[Malliki]

But there is no provision regulating honorary citizenship AFAIK. Is there any precedent?

[b3n|<3r|\|]

When the Landsraad almost granted me honorary citizenship.

[Erik Mortis]

Honorary Cit should be an Act of Landsraad?

[Malliki]

I agree. It probably is, what with the lawkeeping around here...

[Kaiser Loki III]

Mike and Scott are both right. If a reprobate comes along, begs to get in and is turned away...

This is me being "Jacobian" for a minute. Let us say that a person has , oh, four citizenships. Two on Micras, one on the phantom-planet Giess, and one Mors-knows where.

Likely, one or more of these is likely to be a one-man or "me-and-my buddy" kind of project. If it is off Micras, with the permission of the applicant, we annex the place. This opens up more possibility for expansion, and it adds no pixels to the Micras-map.

We do this on a case by case.

[Erik Mortis]

*grumble* I don't think you quite get what Scott's saying... If we make 1 exception, why not let that guy in too.. or that one.. then if/when we say no.. people get mad, we look like we play favorites..etc.

[Andreas the Wise]

If we're going to let honourary citizens in, I say we allow them to have a bank account (in Shirekeep, probably) but not hold any positions. That means they get to also participate in the economy. If you want, they could also be a count (but nothing more) but you may think that pushing the boundaries too much into Citizen territory. But anything that allows more active participants into our economy is good.

[Kaiser Loki III]

No, Erik, I get it. I'd love to start making exceptions, but then a Hubert comes along, and we'd get a war.

Or just bad feelings.

I'm going to research the "Honorary" Idea.

[Erik Mortis]

I like the idea of honorary granting a bank account in the country, and a residence in a particular duchy. But would their money be registered outside of Shirekeep.. ie.. would it count toward votes?

[Kaiser Loki III]

NO, never. It's bad enough the creeping greed among us from our our erb, but no foreigners money must ever be used as such!

[Erik Mortis]

That's the thing.. as Honourary Cits we are telling them "We don't think of you as Foreigners". If you don't trust someone enough to give them an account and a residence, then they shouldn't be given the status.

In some ways, we might trust Honourary Cits more then we trust regular cits, since they had to be evaluated and not simply glanced at and approved.

[Kaiser Loki III]

Residence and account, but not the vote. Make a separate file for Honourary accounts. They can always try to bribe Dukes like everybody else.

[Erik Mortis]

File? If you mean the Database.. it doesn't work like that. They just register to Shirekeep, which isn't used in a count.

[Andreas the Wise]

If honourary citizens register to Shirekeep, then their votes aren't counted. It's simple in that sense. If they feel really strongly about an issue they can always send their money to a duchy for a vote.

Bearing in mind what Erik said about these people being appointed by act of Landsraad (like some forgotten awards ) and not just run of the mill, I think its safe to have them in Shirekeep. Besides, its actually going to take a lot of work (even with generous bounties) for new citizens to even get to the 2000 which existing citizens started with. So their money won't be enough to swing votes, but their participation will help the economy.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

In some ways, we might trust Honourary Cits more then we trust regular cits, since they had to be evaluated and not simply glanced at and approved.

*nods*

I like the irony of that.

[Erik Mortis]

I do too...

[Kaiser Loki III]

Google search, "Honorary Citizen"+Shireroth

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Honor ... n&filter=0


and

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Honou ... 42,GGGL:en

[Artz]

If I'm not supposed to be posting here, please pardon me doing so! It just sparked my interest.

But, the trouble with citizens at the moment (at least as I've seen), they're all grasping for power. I've had many people trying to bribe me, throughout different nations, saying "come join my party and I'll give you this role" or "I'll give you this money".. whether its always been like that, or if this is a recent thing, I don't know.. but it shouldn't be so. People should work for their titles and honorary roles.

Being in the position of being a denizen, I would want something there, like a 'spotprize' that I had to work for.. but I'd want that tunnel to climb through. Too many positions, nowadays, are being handed out and theres not much achievement about it. I like the idea of an honorary citizeship, but only if its an achievement and it does not turn into a hand out leaflet. I know many people will probably come to think of it as such, and the lesser of those will go "well how come they got one and I didn't"..but I think its a good idea that we make them work for it, if its in place.

But yeah, twould be a good thing to work for, in my eyes. Hopefully, then they would stay around until they are eligable for regular citizenship.

[Jonas]

She has a very good point!

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Honorary citizenship seems a bit of a farce. Either make it or break it, or people will just take advantage of such a vague definition.

[Kaiser Loki III]

But Shireroth thrives on "vague".

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

In any other micronation, that would be a disadvantage.
Here, it's our national identity. B0O0O0O0O0O/\/\!

[Andreas the Wise]

Artz, I don't know if it's always been like that, but a lot of nations these days are tiny (compared to Apollo days) and new people are grasping for citizens, and willing to try anything to get them ....

Shireroth's not like that, though.

[Artz]

She has a very good point!

Thankyou Jonas

Artz, I don't know if it's always been like that, but a lot of nations these days are tiny (compared to Apollo days) and new people are grasping for citizens, and willing to try anything to get them ....

Shireroth's not like that, though.

Indeed, Shireroth's not.. was just a 'safety feature' as such. Make sure that, if a 'rewarding scheme' - such as this - was put into effect, it didn't look like an easy thing to get to the people who do think that way. But, it is a good goal, or a good thing to reach for, for a denizen. Annoying situation though, we do want normal citizenship to look more juicy and tempting than honorary.. otherwise people are going to chose the latter over the former. Maybe it just needs to be called something different.. as honorary makes you sound important

[Kaiser Loki III]

Resident alien.

Probationary Resident.

Wannabe.

Guest worker.

Participant.

????

[Chrimigules]

Just stick with the denizen system. It sounds cooler.