On Mar Sara

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Erik is right, Mar Sara is land that has been fought over and so on. I concede not a lot is going on there now, but it is populated (if only by me), it has a Count, it has a long and interesting history. Of all the Counties to give half away to another country, why that one? I'm not asking that we expand to get the North (though I'd quite like that), but I do ask we don't let anyone else have it if we can stop 'em.

[Erik Mortis]

And we CAN stop them. We claimed that land years ago. I think we fought a Hubert War over it. Long have we sought for the northern portion of it, rightfully ours. Why would we give away the southern part now?

[Andreas the Wise]

Er, guys ... before you get all historical ... they're talking about the Northern Half. Ie the one we haven't claimed.

[Erik Mortis]

Yes. umm... okey.

[Kaiser Loki III]

I pushed for Maraguo / Batavia to get it. I'd accept that or Shireroth.

The "no more pixels for Shireroth MCS ruling" should be used to our advantage. If we give up one pixel, for whatever good reason, we should get one somewhere else.

There is always part of this:

http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Image:New_new.png

Lots of green islands & such.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Unless someone comes up with a better idea, I'll take the above to the Landsraad tomorrow. Checking quickly, I don't think it's a pixel-by-pixel swap, but it does come close to not changing our land area sum.

Er, guys ... before you get all historical ... they're talking about the Northern Half. Ie the one we haven't claimed.

Sorry, no choice but to get historical here! You see, we actually held the north half of the isle before we ever held the south part. Check the map archives if you doubt this. According to Bill we got it as part of a deal he had with Erik, in exchange for our support for Tapfer's secession from Tymaria. We got the south part years later with the collapse of Menelmacar. The north part was lost (again years later) to the Atkins reduction.

[Kaiser Loki III]

Go 'fer it.

[Andreas the Wise]

I'll take it that's based off the empire map? Not worth putting it as two counties, north and south?

No?

Well, I'm done, go ahead ....

[Andreas the Wise]

Urgent note:
http://www.micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1687

[Kaiser Loki III]

Antican spies?

[Malliki]

WAR!!

[Andreas the Wise]

Diplomatic discussions?

[Kaiser Loki III]

No war. Not. Yet.

See PM.

[Andreas the Wise]

Guess we shall have to claim elsewhere then. Jonas, I agree that getting Apollo City and that base Audentior province would be good. If we extended our claim a little further, we could even pick up the 100 lead we disparately need for trading purposes but that no one will trade to us, since Babkha are too concerned about their internal economy at the moment ....

EDIT: The following is clearly very rough and we wouldn't be allowed to claim the whole set. But it shows the original Apollo borders, plus the small extension needed to get us Lead. On the other side is the original I was working off (archive 3.5)

[Ari Rahikkala]

If the MCS gives the territory to Antica, let them have it and let's not contest it.

Andreas, I don't think we can make a well-shaped claim to pick up that lead. Too few pixels to work with. It'd have to be an exclave or a silly-looking thin strip of land. (though I guess it depends on how you count which resources go where)

Here's a claim I'd support in the Landsraad, in exchange for the Middle Absentia niftification:

[Andreas the Wise]

True, we have no real hope of getting it (resources are counted if your land covers half or more of them, so yeah, apart from a weird enclave, no hope).

I think that's a good claim, Ari. It's not the whole thing, but we have no real hope of getting the whole thing. It's shaped nicely and has the two major cities.

[Jonas]

Here's a claim I'd support in the Landsraad, in exchange for the Middle Absentia niftification:

Ari...
I love it! And if I remember right the world map in the Kildarian game (based on the map from CoD I) even show these cities! I could make them accesible if we get the land.

[Kaiser Loki III]

I like this better than the other ideas I've seen.

OK.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Could we at least send a diplomatic note to Antica asking them nicely not to claim northern Mar Sara before we consign its fate to be sat on for all eternity by Antica?

Also I love the fact that in the thread I posted specifically to ensure we made efforts to stop claims like these, it has beend decided that such a claim is fine.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Well... as far as I am concerned, yes, yes we could. But fact is, if it came to a multiple-choice vote in the Landsraad, I would... be conflicted but vote for the Apollo City claim. We can always annex Antica again after all.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Good point well made. I still think we should ask them though.

[Kaiser Loki III]

A Kaiser's work is never done......

I have expressed our reservation and concern, and have dispatched a communication to the antican representative.

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

As a dualcit with Antica, I can confidently state that the Anticans consider the land both pretty and nifty, and have no intention of dropping the claim. I think...

And getting Apollo back is preferable. There's some history there, where that Mar Sara claim would basically be manifest destiny at work.

[Jonas]

Indeed. Apollo needs to be min... ours!

[Kaiser Loki III]

Nick!

Good to see you again!

How go the battles?

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

Nick!

Good to see you again!

How go the battles?

I've been around, I just haven't been posting much. Being president of 2 clubs, founding a new one, and with my course load, it's a miracle I even found this site again...

[Kaiser Loki III]

Come around when you can. You are missed.

[Jonas]

Grmbl. How long does it take to approve this claim in the MCS.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Actually, were we to reclaim all of Mar Sara I could lift a lot of Matbaa's work on the province which occupied the Northern Half (Suryo) into ShireWiki, as per my intellectual ownership and authorship of the majority of it.
With His Niftiness' permission, I'd like it if we could make Suryo its own County, perhaps as a subdivision of K'Tzuni so I can develop it myself? Or at least let me keep Sulayil as a city on the island, to relive old times...

[Kaiser Loki III]

It's moot. The MCS gave it to Antica.