Re: Treaty With Antica

[Chancellor Delphi of Anti]

Quote:Arrogance is the only thing that emates from Antica. We should not bring our Imperial Republic to their low level. If I am not mistaken, are they not the ones that openly proclaim and accept fascism?!This information is outdated and currently, false. Anyone who actually cared to hear and listen to what Antica had to say since early November would have known we are an "absolute dinarchy".As for the arrogance, I'm not quite sure where you'd get that as a valid impression, but to each's own. And I have a feeling it would have to do with my own personal unsuccessful bid to have the Kingdom of Madland not accept the treaty that would make them subservient to your other nation, the Kingdom of Babkha. However I would think it quite unproffesional to have your personal stances on us, mostly attained from your dealings with us through your other nation, be a deciding factor in your vote here. Chancellor of AnticaCommander in Chief of the Antican ArmyEdited by: Chancellor Delphi of Antica  at: 2/10/04 1:52 pm

[Rakesh86]

Sir, First - you have no right to judge me or say I am "unprofessional." I am rightfully the Duke of Brookshire and I may vote as I please. The reasons I cast a vote against any such proposed treaty is that I remember what happend between Antica and the Theocracy several months ago. Your failed infilitration and what happend subsequently. I was truly shocked and sickenend by what your nation did and how it conducted itself following the revelation of its doings. The past is the past - and you cannot change it. Ask Karnali - it took many months and hard work for it to go past the stigmata that followed Anarchy-21 and their takeover of Puritania. I feel Antica has not taken such steps to redeem itself but instead has been hostile and aggressive unnecessarily. Your propaganda continues when you say the Treaty of Geneva would make Madland "subservient" to Babkha - you simply do not have your facts straight. Finally, I do not believe Antica is worthy enough for open relations. I am not saying that you will not ge there but now is not the time. Shireroth is a great nation and I fight for keeping our standards high

[Chancellor Delphi of Anti]

I do have every right to call you unprofessional, first off.Secondly, what happened in Mediterranea is over, and you know what? I'd defend our actions to this day, if questioned again.And being shocked is one thing, but "sickened" at what we did is a needless and obviously false exaggeration. There is no reason to be as unkind as you do.And finally, becoming a protectorate does make a nation subservient, however you want to look at it. Chancellor of AnticaCommander in Chief of the Antican Army

[Rakesh86]

I was "sickened" not due to the infiltration but due to your support of fascism and what not. If I am mistaken please correct me. I believe Madland is in no way subservient and has lost nothing by freely associating with Babkha.

[Chancellor Delphi of Anti]

This is just regarding the fascism thing, if you had been around for after the thing took place, you would have realized that the entire thing about fascism was wrapped into about one thing I said, on one occasion, in regards to our relation to fascism because of the power allocation in our government. From there, Kuralyov led everyone to believe that we were horrible fascists who want to oppress people, etc.In fact, we're an "absolute dinarchy". Chancellor of AnticaCommander in Chief of the Antican Army

[Kuralyov]

From dictionary.com:Quote:fas·cist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshst)n. A reactionary or dictatorial person.Quote:ab·so·lute ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs-lt, bs-lt)adjUnconstrained by constitutional or other provisions: an absolute ruler.As Shakespeare said, "a rose by any other name..." redmenace42@yahoo.comLong Live the Revolution!

[Chancellor Delphi of Anti]

Hmm, funny, you should have no involvement in Shirerothan legislative discussion, but you come and involve yourself anyway. A bit hypocritical, no?And by the way, as you and others (Kuralyov) came to call us, we were fascists with other connotations than those below. And if I were a dictatorial person, I wouldn't give any Antican citizens any say on what goes on, which is not the situation in Antica. I could have it that way if I wanted, but I choose not to. Chancellor of AnticaCommander in Chief of the Antican Army

[Kuralyov]

Quote:Hmm, funny, you should have no involvement in Shirerothan legislative discussion, but you come and involve yourself anyway. A bit hypocritical, no?Not at all. Seeing as this is a discussion forum open for all to talk in, I appear to have as much right to speak here as you (who also have no invovlement on Shireroth's legislation...a bit hypocritical, no?).Quote:And by the way, as you and others (Kuralyov) came to call us, we were fascists with other connotations than those below. And if I were a dictatorial person, I wouldn't give any Antican citizens any say on what goes on, which is not the situation in Antica. I could have it that way if I wanted, but I choose not to. A dictator who gives power to the people when he feels like it is still a dictator. You yourself admit up there that, whenever you want, you can remove the right of the people to participate. Sounds like tyranny to me. redmenace42@yahoo.comLong Live the Revolution!

[Scott Alexander]

Kuralyov, you're using the same dictionary that defines communist as "a radical or subversive person". Both definitions are given after a more proper definition - in the case of fascist, that would be "a supporter of fascism", with fascism being defined as "A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism." The definition you cited is more of an informal usage, with one sentence the dictionary gives being something like "MIT's computer usage policies are really fascist"If Antica has been making stringent socioeconomic controls, suppressing anyone through terror and censorship, or having a policy of racism, I have yet to hear about it.A lot of micronations work on the principle of one man having absolute power but choosing to delegate it to others. Shireroth, for example. A quick check at Babkha's constitution points out that the Shah can declare a state of emergency and do whatever he wants and that there's no one who can tell him "No, it's not an emergency" - thus, in your own way, you are dependent upon Tahmaseb's choosing to maintain a democracy in the same way we Shireirthians are dependent upon Wyltheow's choosing to maintain a republic and the Anticans are dependent upon Delphi and Octavius choosing to maintain whatever they've got. If all those countries are fascist...well then, buy me some jackboots, because fascism's not nearly as bad as everyone seems to think it is. Instead of calling the Anticans by names that associate them with evil people without actually saying anything meaningful, you might to better to try and critique them in some way - keeping in mind that it's impossible to accuse a micronation of oppression because everyone is there of their own free will.

[Chancellor Delphi of Anti]

Quote:Not at all. Seeing as this is a discussion forum open for all to talk in, I appear to have as much right to speak here as you (who also have no invovlement on Shireroth's legislation...a bit hypocritical, no?).The difference between myself being here and you being here is that, you have no involvement in this legislation, where I do. Simple.Quote:Sounds like tyranny to me.Well you know what? It doesn't matter what it sounds like to you. Chancellor of AnticaCommander in Chief of the Antican Army

[Kuralyov]

Quote:If Antica has been making stringent socioeconomic controls, suppressing anyone through terror and censorship, or having a policy of racism, I have yet to hear about it.By threatening war, engaging in spying, attempting to subvert national alliances, and intervening in internal affairs, I think it's fair to say that they have been doing their best to stop anyone from doing what they don't like.And saying they're not being fascist because they aren't racists isn't correct. The real fascists, Mussolini's party, were originally no more racist than England or America were at the time; they only added racial-discrimination laws in order to keep Germany on friendly terms during the Salo Republic phase. Quote:keeping in mind that it's impossible to accuse a micronation of oppression because everyone is there of their own free will. If a citizens join a democratic micronation, only to have someone come into power and purge all government members who did not agree with him, then I think that would count as oppression. The citizens might not wish to leave, due to cultural, historic, emotional, etc., ties with the nation, but they would not be able to exercise any rights.Quote:The difference between myself being here and you being here is that, you have no involvement in this legislation, where I do. Simple.I wasn't aware that you were a duke or baron of Shireroth. And as Defence Vizier of Shireroth's close ally Babkha, it's my duty to ensure that no system of entagling alliances brings Babkha into contact with undesirable nations.Quote:Well you know what? It doesn't matter what it sounds like to you. My, what an effective comeback! redmenace42@yahoo.comLong Live the Revolution!

[OctaviusMe]

Kuralyov, you have to be joking (and this, surprisingly, has only to do with a small part of his post, as opposed to the whole of it (I'll probably get the opportunity the next time he posts to ineffectively bash this)).Quote:attempting to subvert national alliancesKuralyov... explain to when Antica had done this... and how this is any different to what you have done in Madland. Even though you have deleted my posts there concerning the matter, that does not mean the issue has gone away.Quote:If a citizens join a democratic micronation, only to have someone come into power and purge all government members who did not agree with him, then I think that would count as oppression.I like your example, but tell me, how does this apply to Antica?Quote:My, what an effective comeback!Well, the comment on it not mattering what you think sort of does fit. You aren't, as far as I am aware, part of those voting on this matter.You can try to put a nasty gloss to my words, Kuralyov, but this is the simple, full truth, without any implications.

[OctaviusMe]

Oh, and if I might add, as far as I am aware, Antica hasn't been hostile in the literal sense since our initial incident with Mediterranea last year. Since then, we have indeed been working on building proper diplomatic ties with other micronations.