Duchies

[Kaiser Ikol II]

The Lawbook, Chapter II, will gain a new section, C, titled Duchies, to read as follows:

1. Duchies are traditional divisions of Shirerithian lands retained for historic purposes only. They have no political signficance.
2. The six Duchies of Shireroth are Brookshire, Goldenmoon, Kildare, Eluinea, Yardistan, and Straylight.
3. The senior Duke residing in a Duchy may call zirself Duke of [Duchy name]. Any other Dukes in the same Duchy may title themselves after their County or petition the Kaiser for a different title.
4. A Duke should try to coordinate cultural development and defense within zir Duchy, but has no binding legal power over its inhabitants.

I'm thinking of just decreeing this so I can be out of here sooner rather than later without having to bother with the Landsraad. Anyone really want this put to a vote or have any objections?

[Shyriath]

Overall, I like the idea. Some thoughts, though:

-Not sure about 4, not so much because I disagree with the idea of it, but because it's more or less a suggestion; should it be included as part of a law?

-How are we defining a senior Duke? Literally, as in "has been there longest", or for that matter "is duke of the House that has been there longest", or more in the sense of "duke of the House that has the most influence in that Duchy"?

-It might also be a good idea, for the sake of clarity, to define which counties fall into each Duchy.

[Malliki Tosha]

Suggested revision:

1. Duchies are traditional divisions of Shirerithian lands retained for historic puposes only. They have no administrative role.
2. The six Duchies of Shireroth are Brookshire, Goldenmoon, Kildare, Eluinea, Yardistan, and Straylight, comprising their historical lands prior to the House reform.
3. The Duke of the House that controls the largest number of counties in one Duchy may call zirself Duke of [Duchy name]. Any other Dukes in the same Duchy may title themselves after their County or House or petition the Kaiser for a different title.

- 4. removed for the reason stated by Shyriath.
- Defined senior Duke as the Duke that controls the largest number of counties in a Duchy.
- Broad definition of the counties included in each Duchy, i.e., the traditional lands of the six Duchies.
- Language tweaked in 1. since the Duchies will probably have a political significance when Houses decide to expand their territory. Clarified now that the Duchies have no administrative role.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

The Duke of the House that controls the largest number of counties in one Duchy may call zirself Duke of [Duchy name]. Any other Dukes in the same Duchy may title themselves after their County or House or petition the Kaiser for a different title.

I don't really like this. For example, it means that Andreas is Duke of Kildare and Goldenmoon, since his house controls one County in Goldenmoon (Falkner's) and no one else controls any. That seems wrong to me. Maybe that, but add that it only applies if the Duke zirself lives in the Duchy?

[Shyriath]

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that someone should be able to be Duke of more than one Duchy; it means that there's incentive for other Houses to try to develop counties in a contested Duchy in an effort to take the honor for themselves. If there's going to be a restriction, I'd suggest something more like a minimum threshold... Maybe that they have to have at least two counties, or something, so that a House has to at least have a substantial stake before getting the honor of the Duchy.

[Jadie Kelb]

well here is a question: How would it affect Honorary Duchess titles? like...mine...the Honorary Duchess of Goldenmoon...does that mean I would not be able to be called that?

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

since his house controls one County in Goldenmoon (Falkner's) and no one else controls any. That seems wrong to me.

I should be Duke of Goldenmoon! Ha!

EDIT: While I think about it, perhaps it should be senior noble within a duchy should be "duke" of that duchy? Andreas may be my senior as far as politics and houses go, I'm the only one residing in Goldenmoon, so wouldn't it make sense that I were duke thereof?

[Jadie Kelb]

Wow...trying to overturn the Kaiser's decree there Faulkner? *laughs*

I even have the plaque stating Kenny and I are Honorary Duchess and Duke...*laughs*

[Shyriath]

You know... that's actually a good point.

Oh Mr. Kaaaaaiiiiiser! I think Zary and Jadie gots dibs on Goldenmoon...

[Malliki Tosha]

Not necessarily. They are honorary Duchess and Duke. But I agree with Scott about the title problem. Perhaps a certain percentage of counties is needed to get the title?

[Shyriath]

Well, the Duchies are going to be effectively honorary under this scheme anyway. The only reward of becoming Duke of a Duchy is that you get to call yourself Duke of X; that honor is what's being striven for. But that's basically the same honor that was granted to Zary and Jadie already; if someone else becomes Duke of Goldenmoon, it seems to me that what you have is either a cheapening of the Honorary-Duke-and-Duchessness, or a less meaningful actual-Dukeness. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I'd be happier if Goldenmoon were a special case; have the reward for county development there be called Steward of Goldenmoon, or something...

Anyway, yeah... Either a percentage or a set number of counties would work, so long as there was a threshold. Control of Yardistan would be a little weird, though, because it has relatively few counties; I think just Yardistan, MASS, Florin Sara, Naudia'Diva, and Mar Sara. If you did a threshold by number, it wouldn't be too hard to require holding more than half the Duchy; if you did it by percentage, it wouldn't be too hard to only require one county. The other Duchies have enough counties that it would matter so much, but Yardistan would be more sensitive to the actual type and level of threshold; something to keep in mind.

[Shyriath]

Heh... Just had a crazy idea. Probably too complicated and unnecessary to actually use officially, but... Certain Duchies could have alternate titles for historical reasons. Dutch of Kildare, Anarch of Yardistan... Dunno if Eluinea has anything that could correspond, and I'm pretty sure that Brookshire and Straylight don't, but it would be easy to stick "Steward of Goldenbrook" in without looking too conspicuous...

[Daniel Farewell]

The Elw used to have a prince...

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Wow...trying to overturn the Kaiser's decree there Faulkner? *laughs*

I even have the plaque stating Kenny and I are Honorary Duchess and Duke...*laughs*

Honorary, my dear. I, however, am the duchy's only resident and noble, therefore if this system were to become law, I'd believe that I should hold some influence.

[Jadie Kelb]

My point, is that does the Honorary Duke and Duchess titles become void when there is an actual Duke? Or...what? That is my point...and Faulkner I was teasing. I'm just trying to figure out how this is going to work...

I personally think we should leave Duke/Duchess as something as honorary that can only be granted by the Kaiser...no powers are part of the title..it is just a fancy title.

[Malliki Tosha]

Wow...trying to overturn the Kaiser's decree there Faulkner? *laughs*

I even have the plaque stating Kenny and I are Honorary Duchess and Duke...*laughs*

Honorary, my dear. I, however, am the duchy's only resident and noble, therefore if this system were to become law, I'd believe that I should hold some influence.

But the title would confer no influence. It would just be a title. And this is exactly why we need a good system, so that one person holding a single county in a Duchy can become Duke based solely on that.

[Erik Mortis]

I like Mike's revision. Put the threshold at between 1/3rd to 1/2 of the total counties.

But I also like using alternate, historical titles, instead of Duke and Duchess. Like Dutch, Anarch, Prince..etc. I'm sure we can think of something fun for Brookshire.. like Thane.. or Lizzard King.. or something...Or Marquee. ... we used that for a time for a title.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Heh... Just had a crazy idea. Probably too complicated and unnecessary to actually use officially, but... Certain Duchies could have alternate titles for historical reasons. Dutch of Kildare, Anarch of Yardistan... Dunno if Eluinea has anything that could correspond, and I'm pretty sure that Brookshire and Straylight don't, but it would be easy to stick "Steward of Goldenbrook" in without looking too conspicuous...

Straylight has the HONIS, head of non-independent state. Pronounced "honey" to make the plural distinguishable.

[Malliki Tosha]

Since the title "Duke" is already taken, why not this:

Kildare - Dutch
Eluinea - Prince
Brookshire - Marquess
Yardistan - Anarch
Straylight - HONIS

[Erik Mortis]

Looks good to me.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

*Nods approval*

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Since the title "Duke" is already taken, why not this:

Kildare - Dutch
Eluinea - Prince
Brookshire - Marquess
Yardistan - Anarch
Straylight - HONIS

Goldenmoon?

[Kaiser B'caw I]

Dunno if there's a unique one already associated with it, but... Steward? Maybe Regent or Marshal, for words with a more distinguished history?

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Regent sounds nice.

[Malliki Tosha]

I left out Goldenmoon since we already have an honorary Duke and Duchess there.

[Erik Mortis]

Sounds good by me.

[Jadie Kelb]

I like the list alot and thank you Malliki for thinking of me.

[Erik Mortis]

Who wants to put it forth?

[Daniel Farewell]

First of all we still need to work our how these titles are awarded and removed.

[Erik Mortis]

Also, I don't want them to count for voting.