Duchies

For commoners to suggest and discuss Landsraad bills

Moderators: Jonas, CJ Miller

User avatar
Daniel Farewell
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Daniel Farewell »

I wouldn't mind giving these titles a political advantage.

Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Erik Mortis »

This was to be a non-political title. As it stands, I would support this. If we give them ANY power.. I will not. That simple.

User avatar
Daniel Farewell
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Daniel Farewell »

Chapter II, C: Shires

1. Name of the shires

a. There exists in Shireroth six shires of equal dignity, viz. Brookshire, Goldenmoon, Eluinea, Kildare, Straylight and Yardistan.

b. They are headed by honorary nobles, titled differently in each shire in accordance with tradition.

2. Titles.

a. The honorary noble of Brookshire is titled marquess or marchioness.

b. The honorary noble of Goldenmoon is titled honorary duke or honorary duchess.

c. The honorary noble of Eluinea is titled prince or princess.

d. The honorary noble of Kildare is titled dutch or dutchess.

e. The honorary noble of Straylight is titled HONIS.

f. The honorary noble of Yardistan is titled anarch.

3. Associated lands

Each shire is associated with lands of

[Here be dragons]

User avatar
Daniel Farewell
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Daniel Farewell »

Now we need to assign the following to the six shires:


Agnesia
Agningas
Alalehzamin
Amarr
Araxion
Asantelian
Automatica-in-Kildare
Azarea
Backbone Site
Benacia (isle)
Bjorngard
Blackrock
Blavatsky
Callamen's Eye
Cape Farewell
Caverden
Cimmeria
Clonmacnoise
Crestfall Downs
Deep Trouble
Discontinuity
Eliria--Utasia
Elsenar
Florin Sara
Gensym
Goldendown
Gong Li
Halluci Nua
Hawshire-Dura
Highpass
Holwinn
Illumination
Imperial County
Incremental Search
Iserdia
Kitanus Fields
Kralizec
Lakhesian Tribal Nation
Lesser Attera
Lightwave
Lunaris
Lywind
Mar Sara
McCallavre
Melangia
Mirioth--Amity--So-Sara
Modan-Lach
Monty Crisco
Much Re oicing
Musica
Naudia'Diva
Norfolk
Northern Absentia
Nova Damlmacija
Old Hallucination
Pohjankaupunki
Raikoth (Hyperborea)
Ran
Raynor Isles
Sanctuary Dome
Sargassum
Schlangen
Sermolot (Audentior--Demesos--New Jasonia)
Shimmerspring--Jugenskaja
Sunderspray
Syrelwynn
Unspeakable Horror
Wave Manifold
Vervollkommnung
Western Absentia
Wintergleam
Woodshire
Yardistan (island)
Zh.

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

Callamen's Eye is a part of Sunderspray, so I have not included it separately. I've based the below assignments on this map, but if anyone knows of a more recent or appropriate one, or otherwise know of what the status of the Duchy borders should have been at the time of the Houses, by all means tell me. Nonetheless, some counties I have not filtered out:

-Wintergleam. The referenced map shows it as part of Eluinea, but I think it might be better to put it in Goldenmoon; both because Eluinea already has more counties, and because it would bring Goldenmoon's boundaries closer to those of the original Goldshire (if I remember correctly).

-Hawshire-Dura. I believe this is technically still a protectorate, so should we be counting it as part of any Shire?

-Azarea and Zh (or Ž, as I believe the official spelling was). I'm not sure if these two should continue to be called Counties. Although they're listed in the Imperial Lands fora, at the time of the dissolution of the Duchies I don't think they were actually listed among the reposessed counties; certainly they've never been shown as counties on the claims map (though to be fair, they're very small). If they belonged to anyone, though, it'd be Brookshire.

-Mar Sara. Appears to be shown as part of the Imperial County on the referenced map, but if it were grouped with a Shire I'd say Yardistan or Goldshire, if for no other reason than that they've otherwise got the fewest counties.

-The Imperial County, consisting of Shirekeep, the Skyla Isles (I believe; at least I read that somewhere in a relatively recent post), and possibly Mar Sara if that isn't asssigned elsewhere. Shirekeep was traditionally associated with Brookshire; but really, and for the purposes of this discussion especially, it probably shouldn't be in any Shire at all. No one but the Kaiser is ever going to have control of it, I assume.

As far as county numbers go, Straylight, Kildare, and Brookshire are in fairly good shape, but Eluinea, Yardistan, and Goldenmoon trail them noticeably. And without rearranging counties pretty significantly (either by moving them out of their historical bounds, or by combining/splitting, neither one of which I think we want to do) there's not much that'll change that, no matter how the above-listed counties are assigned.

Brookshire:
Amarr
Benacia (isle)
Caverden
Crestfall Downs
Highpass
Kralizec
Lakhesian Tribal Nation
Lywind
Modan-Lach
Monty Crisco
Shimmerspring--Jugenskaja
Woodshire

Eluinea:
Alalehzamin
Araxion
Agnesia
Bjorngard
Cape Farewell
Cimmeria
Eliria--Utasia
Iserdia
Illumination
Raikoth (Hyperborea)

Goldenmoon:
Asantelian
Elsenar
Holwinn
Goldendown
Lunaris
Ran
Syrelwynn

Kildare:
Automatica-in-Kildare
Blackrock
Gong Li
Halluci Nua
Kitanus Fields
Lesser Attera
Melangia
Norfolk
Novi Dalmacija
Old Hallucination
Raynor Isles
Schlangen
Sermolot (Audentior--Demesos--New Jasonia)
Vervollkommnung

Straylight:
Backbone Site
Blavatsky
Clonmacnoise
Deep Trouble
Discontinuity
Gensym
Incremental Search
Lightwave
McCallavre
Much Rejoicing
Pohjankaupunki
Sanctuary Dome
Sargassum
Sunderspray
Unspeakable Horror
Wave Manifold

Yardistan:
Agningas
Florin Sara
Mirioth--Amity--So-Sara
Musica
Naudia'Diva
Northern Absentia
Western Absentia
Yardistan (island)
Last edited by Kaiser B'caw I on Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

If I may, I'd suggest a bill along these lines. I'm using the designation "Shires" here, as Daniel did, but whether it should definitively be that or "Duchies" I leave up to others. Same with the "Titles of Dominion" nomenclature.

2-e is meant to account for the situation with the honorary titles granted to Jadie and Zary; in short, it's making a distinction between the honorary titles given for county development, which this bill is meant to deal with, and those given for other reasons (like Honorary Duke and Duchess of Goldenmoon).
Chapter II, C: Shires

1. Definition of Shires
a. For historical and cultural purposes, the lands of Shireroth shall be divided into Shires.
b. The Shires of Shireroth are as follows:
i. Brookshire, consisting of the counties of (county list);
ii. Eluinea, consisting of the counties of (county list);
iii. Goldenmoon, consisting of the counties of (county list);
iv. Kildare, consisting of the counties of (county list);
v. Straylight, consisting of the counties of (county list);
vi. Yardistan, consisting of the counties of (county list).

2. Titles of Dominion
a. Each Shire shall have associated with it a title of dominion, which shall fall upon the head of the House with the most counties within that Shire.
b. A Shire's title of dominion shall confer no political role or advantage; it shall be instead a mark of honor and prestige.
c. No House may qualify for a Shire's associated title unless it controls directly, or has within its sphere of influence, at least one third of the counties within that Shire.
d. The Titles of Dominion shall be as follows:
i. For Brookshire, Marquess or Marchioness of Brookshire;
ii. For Eluinea, Prince or Princess of Eluinea;
iii. For Goldenmoon, Regent of Goldenmoon;
iv. For Kildare, Dutch or Dutchess of Kildare;
v. For Straylight, HONIS of Straylight;
vi. For Yardistan, Anarch of Yardistan.
e. The Titles of Dominon, based on county development, shall be distinct from other honorary titles, whether or not those titles make reference to one of the Shires.
Image

Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Erik Mortis »

Looking good. Don't include the Protectorate. And as for the mismatch in County.. err.. counts, I wouldn't worry to much since they don't have any political benefit. But this is why I'm not keen on merging and splitting of counties as we did recently.

User avatar
Jadie Kelb
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Kralizec, Shireroth
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Jadie Kelb »

Why is Goldenmoon Regent?

And how would this affect the fact that I am governor of Kralizec and Honorary Duchess of Goldenmoon? Would I have to move to a county in Goldenmoon to keep my title?
:hover

Mrs. Jadie Kelb
Governor of Kralizec
Honorary Duchess of Goldenmoon

User avatar
Malliki Tosha
Posts: 2516
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Malliki Tosha »

Jadie, this affects you in no way what so ever. The Regent of Goldenmoon will be the Duke that controls a certain number of counties in Goldenmoon. You will still be honorary Duchess of Goldenmoon. You will also remain governor of Kralizec and that will also not be affected. So don't worry. :thumbsup
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

Exactly so. Basically, Jadie, the bill applies specifically to the results of controlling counties in a particular area. The Honorary Duke/Duchess thing that you and Zary have is outside this system.

The only question mark is which kind of title should be considered the higher honor; since there probably won't be a Regent of Goldshire for a while, that issue is moot right now. However, if one does come along, I encourage you and Zary to lord it over zir for all you're worth. Have fun with it. :kaiser
Image

User avatar
Jadie Kelb
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Kralizec, Shireroth
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Jadie Kelb »

Personally, since the Regent is the "duke" ruling Goldenmoon...I would think that would be considered the higher honor. Being honorary just gives us a fancy title...and honestly we got it because we were crazy enough to get married after meeting through micronations 7 years ago. Sidenote: I hung up the plaque...it looks very nice. :)
:hover

Mrs. Jadie Kelb
Governor of Kralizec
Honorary Duchess of Goldenmoon

User avatar
Malliki Tosha
Posts: 2516
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Malliki Tosha »

No one will be ruling Goldenmoon as such. The Duchies are being brought back for historical reasons. If a House controls a large number of counties in one Duchy, the head of that House can use the referenced title. Erik, for example, would be "Duke Mortis, Marquess of Brookshire".
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC

Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Erik Mortis »

Oh yeah.. I get a fancier title from this.

User avatar
Daniel Farewell
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Daniel Farewell »

Your Majesty -- Wintergleam has long been associated with Eluinea. I would this association to last after this. If you think Eluinea has too many counties, we can merge Cimmeria, Bjorngard and Hyperborea, as Scott's original plan was.

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

I think I'd rather keep those counties as they are. Erik has a point, anyway; parity in county numbers shouldn't really be the issue here.

So, some thoughts: Wintergleam stays with Eluinea, due to more recent association. After looking into the cases of Azarea and Ž, I realized that the reason they were never individually reclaimed by the Imperial Government is that most of the lands of the briefly-combined Duchy of Goldenbrook had already been reclaimed en masse when said Duchy was dissolved... so, whether I like it or not, they're likely still legitimate Counties, and so they can go to Brookshire. Mar Sara seems to have the most recent associations with Yardistan, so it can go there. The Imperial County, consisting of Shirekeep and the Skyla Isles, shall be part of no Duchy/Shire, and neither will Hawshire-Dura, due to its special status.

So that would leave us with the following situation:

Brookshire (14 counties):
Amarr
Azarea
Benacia (isle)
Caverden
Crestfall Downs
Highpass
Kralizec
Lakhesian Tribal Nation
Lywind
Modan-Lach
Monty Crisco
Shimmerspring--Jugenskaja
Woodshire
Ž

Eluinea (11 counties):
Alalehzamin
Araxion
Agnesia
Bjorngard
Cape Farewell
Cimmeria
Eliria--Utasia
Iserdia
Illumination
Raikoth (Hyperborea)
Wintergleam

Goldenmoon (7 counties):
Asantelian
Elsenar
Holwinn
Goldendown
Lunaris
Ran
Syrelwynn

Kildare (14 counties):
Automatica-in-Kildare
Blackrock
Gong Li
Halluci Nua
Kitanus Fields
Lesser Attera
Melangia
Norfolk
Novi Dalmacija
Old Hallucination
Raynor Isles
Schlangen
Sermolot (Audentior--Demesos--New Jasonia)
Vervollkommnung

Straylight (16 counties):
Backbone Site
Blavatsky
Clonmacnoise
Deep Trouble
Discontinuity
Gensym
Incremental Search
Lightwave
McCallavre
Much Rejoicing
Pohjankaupunki
Sanctuary Dome
Sargassum
Sunderspray
Unspeakable Horror
Wave Manifold

Yardistan (9 counties):
Agningas
Florin Sara
Mar Sara
Mirioth--Amity--So-Sara
Musica
Naudia'Diva
Northern Absentia
Western Absentia
Yardistan (island)

So, under the proposal of one-third requisite control of a Duchy, that means that the requirements would be:
5 counties for Brookshire (House Mortis has 4)
4 counties for Eluinea (House Kalirion has 5, and its Head would be Prince of Eluinea)
3 counties for Goldenmoon (House Kildare has 1)
5 counties for Kildare (House Kildare has 3)
6 counties for Straylight (House Mortis has 1)
3 counties for Yardistan (House Annexis has 2)

Once my plans for Benacia move ahead, Mortis should get the requisite five for Marquess of Brookshire; but it will have to wait until a certain point in my story, and anyway it'd be a bit crass to be the Kaiser that recognizes myself as governor there.
Image

Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Erik Mortis »

Damn... I need to get 1 more county from old Brookshire for House Mortis.. hmmmm....

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

I think Malliki had said something about going for Amarr?
Image

Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Erik Mortis »

Excellent.

Anyhoo. Vote?

User avatar
Malliki Tosha
Posts: 2516
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Malliki Tosha »

Yes, I do. In the plans for my Lakhesian language family, I've included Amarri, closely related to the Lakhesian spoken in the Nation.
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

A final draft. County names added; also added 1-c, which clarifies how the Imperial County, Territories, and Protectorates fit into this (they don't). Since a bill like this is also going to simultaneously fix the names of the Counties in law, I tried to tidy up things a bit. I wasn't sure whether to go with Shimmerspring or Jugenskaja for the one county. It's the latter on the wiki, but it was never formally changed here on the messageboard, so my assumption is that Shimmerspring is still the official name and that Jugenskaja is a sort of alternate name of cultural significance; I did the same with Hyperborea/Raikoth.

If there are no objections, I'll introduce this to the Landsraad.
Chapter II, C: Shires

1. Definition of Shires
a. For historical and cultural purposes, the lands of Shireroth shall be divided into Shires.
b. The Shires of Shireroth are as follows:
i. Brookshire, consisting of the counties of Amarr, Azarea, Benacia, Caverden, Crestfall Downs, Highpass, Kralizec, Nation of Lakhesis, Lywind, Modan-Lach, Monty Crisco, Shimmerspring (AKA Jugenskaja), Woodshire, and Ž;
ii. Eluinea, consisting of the counties of Alalehzamin, Araxion, Agnesia, Bjorngard, Cape Farewell, Cimmeria, Eliria and Utasia, Hyperborea (AKA Raikoth), Iserdia, Illumination, and Wintergleam;
iii. Goldenmoon, consisting of the counties of Asantelian, Elsenar, Holwinn, Goldendown, Lunaris, Ran, and Syrelwynn;
iv. Kildare, consisting of the counties of Automatica, Blackrock, Gong Li, Halluci Nua, Kitanus Fields, Lesser Attera, Melangia, Norfolk, Novi Dalmacija, Old Hallucination, Raynor Isles, Schlangen, Sermolot, and Vervollkommnung;
v. Straylight, consisting of the counties of Backbone Site, Blavatsky, Clonmacnoise, Deep Trouble, Discontinuity, Gensym, Incremental Search, Lightwave, McCallavre, Much Rejoicing, Pohjankaupunki, Sanctuary Dome, Sargassum, Sunderspray, Unspeakable Horror, and Wave Manifold;
vi. Yardistan, consisting of the counties of Agningas, Florin Sara, Mar Sara, Mirioth, Amity, and So-Sara, Musica, Naudia'Diva, Northern Absentia, Western Absentia, and Yardistan.
c. The Imperial County, consisting of Shirekeep and the Skyla Isles, shall belong to no Shire, nor shall Territories and Protectorates.

2. Titles of Dominion
a. Each Shire shall have associated with it a title of dominion, which shall fall upon the head of the House with the most counties within that Shire.
b. A Shire's title of dominion shall confer no political role or advantage; it shall be instead a mark of honor and prestige.
c. No House may qualify for a Shire's associated title unless it controls directly, or has within its sphere of influence, at least one third of the counties within that Shire.
d. The Titles of Dominion shall be as follows:
i. For Brookshire, Marquess or Marchioness of Brookshire;
ii. For Eluinea, Prince or Princess of Eluinea;
iii. For Goldenmoon, Regent of Goldenmoon;
iv. For Kildare, Dutch or Dutchess of Kildare;
v. For Straylight, HONIS of Straylight;
vi. For Yardistan, Anarch of Yardistan.
e. The Titles of Dominon, based on county development, shall be distinct from other honorary titles, whether or not those titles make reference to one of the Shires.
Image

User avatar
Malliki Tosha
Posts: 2516
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:43 am

Re: Duchies

Post by Malliki Tosha »

Question: How do I incorporate Amarr into my sphere of influence? Is it just to start posting crap there or what?
Malliki Tosha
Owner, Mortis Mercatoria FC
Owner, Newport City FC

User avatar
Kaiser B'caw I
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Duchies

Post by Kaiser B'caw I »

...You know... I looked it up, and it doesn't look like the proposal ever actually got decreed. The Landsraad passed a resolution urging the Kaiser to do so, but that was right around your abdication, and I think it kinda got lost in the shuffle afterwards... I suppose I should do something about that. :kaiser

In the meantime: see the text below for how the resolution went, but basically you go ahead and start posting development-related stuff in Amarr, and once it reaches a certain level of awesomeness, you can be declared its governor... or rather its Count, because the wording's going to get changed... and it will pass to the effective control of House Mortis. And of course, same deal for Houses working on other Imperial Lands.
1. That all Imperial Lands are laid open to any Shirerithian interests that wish to explore, exploit, develop, or colonize them. Citizens of Shireroth need not seek Imperial permission before attempting to develop Imperial Lands.

2. That the Kaiser or Landsraad may choose to evict a person, corporation, or House from an Imperial Land if they demonstrate a willful disregard for its populace or culture. Such a person's work will be deemed "non-canon" and can be explained away by future colonizers in any way they wish. That person will be banned from any further development work in that area, or, depending on the scale of the offense, in Imperial Lands.

3. That the Kaiser or Landsraad may choose to grant governorships to those who have done exceptional work developing an Imperial Land. The governor of a land, and the House to which ze belongs will have control over a land, its armies, its resources, and its development so long as ze holds the title over said Imperial Lands.

4. That the Kaiser or Landsraad may choose to revoke gubernatorial titles and their pleasure.

5. That the official in charge of cartography will, at reasonable intervals, release maps showing what Shirerithian counties are under what degree of influence from what houses.
Image

Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Duchies

Post by Erik Mortis »

Draft looks fine. Put it forth.

Post Reply

Return to “Landsraad Front Gate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests