The flag.. dun dun dun...

[Erik Mortis]

Mike said I had to put this forward here first, or it would be vetoed off the bat.


so...

Idea One. Restore the True flag of Shirereoth.

Idea Two. Don't have a flag at all. (We can't agree, no one says either represents us, so what's the point of pretending... )

Idea Two Beta. Put the coat of arms on a background, call it a flag and call it a day.

[Jadie Kelb]

Old flag!!! It represents our heritage and traditions!!!

[Harvey Steffke]

I believe my position on this matter is well documented. If in doubt, see the sig.

[Andreas the Wise]

ABSTAIN, since this is a matter for people with strong opinions to decide. However, I don't like Idea Two Beta; and if we do restore the old flag, can we have a slightly less pixelated version please?

[Shyriath]

If there were going to be a coat-of-arms-based flag, I wouldn't recommend sticking the whole coat of arms on a background; it doesn't look very good, especially if you shrink the image. Something like a banner of arms would be more appropriate: taking the design that's on the shield, and fitting it to a rectangular flag-shape.

Mind you, I am saying this as a herald, not because I necessarily support it as a choice. In fact, let me say it clearly: although my flag preferences are known, I am not going to take sides this time. This matter was decided according to law, and decided it should stay, at least for more time than it's been given. After a year or so, feel free to dig it up again and I'll join in, but if we're going to rehash this issue every few months, we'll have neither a stable flag nor a stable nation.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Is that seriously the way you want to be? Doing whatever you can to rain on our parade, including getting rid of the flag entirely, whether or not it gets the old flag back? From a Solomonic point of view, it sounds a lot like "Okay, let's kill the baby, just as long as she can't have it."

[Aurangzeb Khan]

That Old Flag, as it stood, was awful, and while improved versions were offered none could secure a majority compared to the fluke success of the contemporary flag. Must we really have this discussion again?

[Erik Mortis]

We were already having this discussion, I just brought it forward. And mike was pondering an idea that would have brought it to the front again...I just sped things up.

Actually, there are some very good reasons to ditch both flags Scott, mainly, that a flag is supposed to represent the nation, neither the True Flag nor the *retch* new one seem capable of doing that. This new one won by a fluke/deviousness/brokenness, if we must disregard the True Flag we could at least have a good one that represents the nation.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

This new one won by a fluke/deviousness/brokenness,

I challenge you to support that assertion. We took several weeks trying to find the design that the most people liked, we used an unusually well-designed voting process, and the flag got a pretty impressive majority of the vote. It faced off against the old flag twice - once in the original competition, and once in the Landsraad - under two different voting systems, one of which you designed yourself.

Your flag, on the other hand, was originally imposed by you saying so without asking anyone, and has never passed any vote.

I'll go on record and say I'd rather have your flag than be the only country in the world that doesn't get a flag because its people are too immature to accept one, but only on the same principle that I'd rather give my baby to someone else who will raise it poorly than kill it outright.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

There is a difference between 'pondering' and actually 'doing'.

[Harvey Steffke]

This new one won by a fluke/deviousness/brokenness,

I challenge you to support that assertion.

If nothing else Bill hopped into the nation, because the Duke of Kildare, campaigned for the new flag, and then cruised on out almost immediately after.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

If this discussion has any outcome, I want it to be a permanent solution, not something we revisit every couple of months for the next decade.

[Jonas]

If this discussion has any outcome, I want it to be a permanent solution, not something we revisit every couple of months for the next decade.

We have had the permanent solution: there has even been voted about the matter. The current flag is the True Flag now.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Well, if one part of the nation revisits the issue it can hardly be called permanent.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

It is permanent if the kvetching part of the nation is told to get over it. The Old Flag is already the Imperial Standard, so clearly the refractory faction has already received concessions that are quite sufficient.

[Erik Mortis]

They obviously aren't sufficient.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Erik and I have come to a shady backroom deal on the flag issue, so I'm going to shut up about this from now on.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

They obviously aren't sufficient.

That you aren't satisfied with concessions that were sufficient is a matter all of its own.

Anyway - sounds like it is a case of useless redundant compromise ahoy so I'll just go make myself a coffee while you chaps carry on with the squalid... whatever it is you are doing... with regards to this issue.

[Jacobus Loki]

How about one as the Kaiser(ess)' personal flag and one as the National flag?

[Andreas the Wise]

How about one as the Kaiser(ess)' personal flag and one as the National flag?

That's basically what we have now.

[Erik Mortis]

And it wasn't sufficient to placate people. It just made those pushing the change feel like they actually had made some sort of compromise, when really didn't offer anything.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

And it wasn't sufficient to placate people.

Yes, well I quite agree that people are hopeless - were there any sort of viable alternative I'd probably argue for their abolition.

[Hesam Jayatar]

HOLY FUCK! AN ARGUMENT THAT NO ONE CARED ABOUT ANYMORE BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD TO BOTH INSTIGATE ACTIVITY AND INDULGE ERIK'S OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE ISSUES ABOUT A DEAD SQUARE OF PIXELS NO ONE CARED ABOUT!

[Jacobus Loki]

There are a lot of us who care about tradition.

(Good vulture, btw)

[Aurangzeb Khan]

THERE IS NO TRADITION! THERE IS ONLY UTTER PETTINESS!

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Ric gets it...

[Daniel Farewell]

HAHA "utter"

[Jacobus Loki]

MOO?!

Where did the butter-cow go?

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

It left with Nathan I think.

[Erik Mortis]

Moving on....