Integration aCt

[Erik Mortis]

Quote:RESOLVED, that the following be added to Section II of the Lawbook as Subsection F, entitled "National Integration":1. All Duchies are equal to one another under the eyes of the law, and all Baronies are equal to one another save for restrictions that their Dukes may put upon them.2. No subdivision may conduct its own foreign relations:a. No subdivision may make treaties, pacts, or alliances, either with foreign powers or with other subdivisions.i. Duchies may make trade treaties with other subdivisions in exception to this rule, but may not make trade treaties with foreign powers.ii. Baronies may make trade treaties with other subdivisions in exception to this rule, if and only if their Duke allows them. They also may not make trade treaties with foreign powers.iii. Any treaties between subdivisions currently in effect will be cancelled without penalty.b. No subdivision may go to war with another subdivision, nor may they threaten to use force against another subdivision in any other way.i. Any conflict between two subdivisions must be settled either by peaceable negotiation or by appeal to the Imperial Government and the Kaiser.ii. Any subdivision that breaks this law will be considered in open rebellion and dealt with accordingly.There is NOTHING wrong with this bill. It does from what I can read.. the following.1. Subdivisions are equal to other subdivisions of their status.2. Subdivisions can't make internal treaties. (except trade agreements.)2a. Those already in place are canceled.3. Subdivisions cannot make treaties with other nations.4. Subdivisions cannot go to war with each other.I don't see how this is a "divided issue". It's straight forward and simple. Basicly it tells nobles that they are all equals (dukes to dukes barons to barons).. and that internal wars will not be tolerated by the Imperial Goverment.This in no way limits Subdivisions overthrowing a corrupt Kaiser...(which has happened).. Which is one of the arguements I'm seeing. Accually we already have laws against rebellions against the throne...I petition the nobles above me and all other nobles of the land to pay attention to what is really on the table right now and vote AYE. This doens't take away your powers. It just puts in writting what should have been long ago. (as with many laws we pass). OK.. Nobles seem to be arueing (in one way or another) that this bill removes their rights. I will remind them.. they have no rights, their titles themselves are NOT guerenteed to them. And what "rights" would you be fighting for?The Right to attack other Duchies?The Right to make internal alliance? The Right to consort with foreign powers?Why would you want or need any of those rights?Are you planning to attack another duchy?Are you planning to make an alliance of duchies to take out another?Are you planning to conspire with foreign powers to overthrow another Duchy?You see my point? This is a bill against treason and internal betrayal. This is a bill to prevent a rogue Duchy from trying to conqour another Duchy. How would you like it if your Duchy was attacked by another duchy? aye? You'de have no protection from the law. Sure other duchies may come to your aid.. but so might others to your agressor. This bill prevents that. It prevents you from being overrun by another duchy. So Vote Yea and protect your borders from Future rogue subdivisions... Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

Quote:Are you planning to make an alliance of duchies to take out another?This is my concern. Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Phoenix the Risen]

*annexes Brookshire* Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Alexandra Decens]

that does no good....i think it has already been annexed... I have no custom signature...oh wait...

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

Most of us have already been annexed...no, my concern is serious... Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Gman Russell]

*rolls eyes luxuriously*Erik and Nick vs. Me and the other radicals... (usually Scott or Rakesh and Eriana...) what a shock! This has never happened before! hehe...Actually, I'm not planning on attacking anyone; I just don't like all these laws tying me down on what I can and cannot do. Plus if a dutchy wants to fight another they'll do it anyway...

[david northworthy beckfor]

I do think it should be less ristrictive "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Quote:Erik and Nick vs. Me and the other radicals... (usually Scott or Rakesh and Eriana...) what a shock! This has never happened before! hehe...Uh oh...you're making it sound like we have parties...WHICH WE DON'T! "The Lord is a shoving leopard." - Reverend William Spooner

[Erik Mortis]

GOD DAMN IT PEOPLE!Can't you be fucking serious for 5 bloody minutes?!?!? IO mean Jesus. This isn't a fucking OT this is a Governmental forum.gah...Greg... What restrictions? You want to have the power to commit treason with no ramifications.Nick, maybe you should just decree this into place.... Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[david northworthy beckfor]

(This message was left blank) Jason Steffke: Wow! A time traveling state! That's gotta win the uniqueness award!Nick the Yardistani: Well...It is Yardistan...heh... Edited by: david northworthy beckford  at: 4/20/04 2:31 pm

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Erik, we don't take government seriously. Maybe you haven't noticed. If you want to humbly petition for a friendly amendment to the second reading of the bill, go join Morovia or something. If you want to have a discussion about the bill that includes frequent off-topic digressions and people having fun and chatting with one another but eventually does get everyone's views about the bill out, well, that's what Shireroth is here for. As for just decreeing it, I think that would be a big mistake. Right now the system works almost entirely because the Kaiser doesn't decree any more than he absolutely has to. If he started decreeing everything he had an opinion about, the Landsraad would become pointless and you can bet we'd have some democracy agitation very quickly. "The Lord is a shoving leopard." - Reverend William Spooner

[Jadie of Goldshire]

I believe someone put it really well....This bill is causing too much stability and stability + micronation = death. Which is true. Shireroth is known for its rebellions against the imperial government. So why should it only be limited to Yardistan if it is good role-playing fun? That is what I don't understand... Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[Gman Russell]

Erik: We allready have laws against treason, and it's called the oath!I just... don't like the Integration act... call it an inborn feeling.PLUS, isn't it allready a law that Yardistani's can rebell because they're Yardistani? Or did I imagine that?PLUS, it makes Shireroth more interesting. We need to find a balance between stability and chaos; thats what keeps a micronation alive. This gives too much stability.PLUS PLUS, we don't have political parties... just unofficial factions that tend to vote the same way. Edited by: Gman Russell at: 4/20/04 5:03 pm

[Erik Mortis]

No.. we are not..In the HISTORY of shireroth we have a few Yardistani rebellions.. which are mostly jokes and lead to nothing.. and 1... ONE!!!!!! civil-rec-war where we took Mog out.... ONE! I don't think that's a history... Now.. we had that golden horde thing.. but that was not a rebellion... that was an invasion.. or sorts..Quote:Aside from what Scott so rightly stated about our militant history, why should the Imperial Government limit the options Duchies can take? If Nick believes so highly in this Government then he must believe just as highly that the Government draws power from the people, and the people are entitled to bring their government if it does not meet its needs. Thus you are curtailing our priviledge and duty as Dukes and Barons. If a Barony thought they were being ruled unfairly they should act. If a Duke thought the Kaiser he swore loyalty to is abusing his power, he should act. Let us not stop this. Rakesh... I think you have this nation confused with America.. The Imperial Government draws its power from the Kaiser.. not the people.And I think I might point out.. this in no way limits rebellion vs the crown. just alliances between subdivisions against other subdivisions.And Rakesh, in the landsraad you mention how this would provent pacts or treaties where subdivisions exchange cultural stuff or something... That would fall under Trade Agreement...Sub-divisions don't need to make treaties saying they will defend each other.. That is already Automatically in place... And what is more.. Subdivisions are not the basic military unit of the nation. MOMA runs the national military. Subdivisions are allowed troops but only in the same way as State Militias in some real world nations are allowed...so by voting nay to this act you are saying it IS perfectly ok for a Subdivision to conqour another. Now I shall say it again so people DON"T miss it...SHIREROTH IS NOT KNOWN FOR REBELLIONS AGAINST THE CROWN! Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Gman Russell]

Indeed not!I did a word association with several people at a Troy chat. Most answers were "Kaiser" or "Erik".

[Erik Mortis]

cool? Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Gman Russell]

Haha, I guess.... at least it isn't known for its stupidness. *nods*

[Scott of Hyperborea]

What was the Golden Horde thing? "The Lord is a shoving leopard." - Reverend William Spooner

[Jadie of Goldshire]

I'm probably wrong....but that's just the way I view it. I'm not saying that this nation shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm just saying ever since I joined it just seems that things are becoming more and more strict...shit its starting to feel like the US... Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[Erik Mortis]

Strict on what?!?!?! Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Jadie of Goldshire]

meep! Don't get mad at me..I'm just saying what I'm noticing!!! Geebaz...Fine I'll just shut up.... Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[Erik Mortis]

THat was said in the way I ussually say things with emphassis..But the question still stands... Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Jadie of Goldshire]

*reads what she last posted*Wow..I was pretty incoherent....Sorry bout that...Carry on with your debate gentleman Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[Erik Mortis]

??? Well.. what did you mean?Yes. debate. This bill = good for the nation! Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Jadie of Goldshire]

I don't know what I meant! I just know at the time I felt like Shireroth was getting stricter...and less fun. The reason I joined shireroth was because it was fun...not because I wanted to follow a bunch of rules. Shireroth is just a game!!! Its not real life...people shouldn't be taking everything so damn seriously. If people rebel...they rebel and you do your best to deal with it. Its not like people are rebelling because they hate Shireroth...sometimes it is just to add spice to the dullness that settles in. Shireroth doesn't seem nearly as crazy as it used to be...and that saddens me. Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[david northworthy beckfor]

Quote:Rakesh... I think you have this nation confused with America.. The Imperial Government draws its power from the Kaiser.. not the people.officially true.in actual fact, most completly false.without the people, this nation, like all others, does not exist.if the people all left to start "The People's New Empire of Goldshire Cognito and Amity" and only you and nick remained in the IRS, then, wether the law likes it or not, the people have taken there power from the government.as for what Jadie last said, I agree whole heartedly Jason Steffke: Wow! A time traveling state! That's gotta win the uniqueness award!Nick the Yardistani: Well...It is Yardistan...heh...

[Gman Russell]

Should I agree, or would that just be redundant?

[Rakesh86]

For the gazillionth time, I have clearly understood that this is not America. The democratic system of government has been and most probably will be absent from Shireroth for many months ahead. But let us open up our History books and look at macronational examples. Kings and their counterparts (including the Kaiser and what not) - used to rule by divine right and priviledge, and other absolute monarchs ruled through force and terror. Obviously neither of the former examples can be used in Shireroth, since it usually went in hand with massively centralized states. In Shireroth, a more confederal rather unitiary system is in place which is in line with our proclaimed feudal structure. When we vote for this integration act, we are just starting a massive snowball that could turn into a process where feudalism is abandoned and the Duchies lose their significance in Shireroth. Our Feudalistic structure makes us unique.What we have already in our Lawbook is more than sufficient.

[Erik Mortis]

"Shireroth is just a game!!!".... And that's the sentiment that's been making me grumpy lately... I know one shouldn't take it too seriously... But I'm starting to think people aren't taking it seriously at all. This isn't a game. It's a hobby. A game has rules and you can win. This is a hobby in all definitions of the word. I keep thinking people are just doing things because they want to "play a role". We aren't an RPG. We're a Micronation......I'll save this rant for later.... Erik Mortis BrookshireCount of Monty CriscoCommoner of AlexandrettaHeir to the Line of Metzler/Mortis/RaynorBig Cheese of Rrakanychan Inc.Shirerithian ElderGeneral in the YAC

[Gman Russell]

GRRRR!!!! THIS DUMB EZBOARD RUINED MY GREAT RANT! SCREW EZBOARD!!!GRRRR!!!!!!!!! : -->:"> : -->:"> : -->:">