Shirewiki

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Yeah, as I've said elsewhere, please get a Shirewiki page.

[Andreas the Wise]

A Shirewiki page for what?

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Ummm... House Kildare?

[Andreas the Wise]

Ok. It wasn't at all clear from the topic, I wondered for a while if you meant Kildfare and had missed that I'd already done that.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Nono, Kildfare looks great. I mean the House.

[Andreas the Wise]

Will that do to begin with? I know, the history section needs updating (historically unverify you people and your continual doing of stuff at a rate faster than the historical records of it are taken!), the box on the side may be somewhat out of date, I'm not sure about the website anymore/ever, and the government history needs a bit more, but hey, the Current Nobility section is up to date, and the starting paragraph is suitably biased.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Well, the fact that it's not a Dukedom anymore is one thing. I have no problem with you continuing to use "Dutch". I do, however, wish to contend the notion that there is any land that belongs to you, or to any House. The land I grant you is held in fief. This is what fief means:

"The fief is often consisted of inheritable lands or revenue-producing property granted by a lord. This is generally a vassal (who holds seisin) in return for a form of allegiance (usually given by homage and fealty). Originally, vassalage did not imply the giving or receiving of landholdings (which were granted only as a reward for loyalty). The granting of a landholding to a vassal did not relinquish the lord's property rights, but only the use of the lands and their income; the granting lord retained ultimate ownership of the fief and could, technically, recover the lands in case of disloyalty or death."

[Andreas the Wise]

I thought I carefully removed all references to us being a Duchy except in a historical sense; and changed them to House/Land/Dutch as appropriate? Ok, so local government says "Dukedom" but I didn't know what to replace it with because we haven't properly established the house meta-narrative yet.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

That was not my main point. My main point was that I own the land. You hold it in fief and in return I expect your loyalty.

[Andreas the Wise]

That was not my main point. My main point was that I own the land. You hold it in fief and in return I expect your loyalty.

Yeah, yeah, we've had this discussion already. We have different views of feudalism, we've established that. I don't see how it is relevant to the wiki page I constructed at your behest, unless you're suggesting that I've proven my loyalty so you're going give me more land

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13434 (Applies to Jonas, but you get my drift)

[Jonas]

That was not my main point. My main point was that I own the land. You hold it in fief and in return I expect your loyalty.

If you stay writing this, you will motivate people to do nothing. I'm not going to develop a piece of land that is 'yours'. If I'm going to develop something, it will be my land, given by the Kaiser long, long ago. Yes, I know I can always lose it (that's feudalism), but I don't like the attitude of the Imperial Government.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Just chill Jonas. I won't be taking any land that you have developed, I merged New Jasonia with Audentior, and I will probably be giving you more land per person than any other House (I think). The only thing I ask for in return is an end to the complaints coming from this side of the ocean, which seems to be happening at last.

[Jonas]

Just chill Jonas. I won't be taking any land that you have developed, I merged New Jasonia with Audentior, and I will probably be giving you more land per person than any other House (I think). The only thing I ask for in return is an end to the complaints coming from this side of the ocean, which seems to be happening at last.

We will never stop complaining! It's in our blood!

Lets see... we could complain about the complaining...?

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

Or you could complain about me complaining about your complaining?

[Jonas]

Or you could complain about me complaining about your complaining?

...





...

[Andreas the Wise]

Or you could complain about me complaining about your complaining?

:

[Erik Mortis]

Personally.. I'm inclined to suggest you keep taking lands till they get the message they are developing them not for themselves, but for the nation and for the crown. It's not a matter of opinions of feudalism, it's a matter of definitions. Feudalism IS defined. Fief IS defined. What Kildare wants to believe on the matter is irrelevant.

[Kaiseress Anandja II]

I'm going to institute the system I have in the IAC and then take it from there.

[Jacobus Loki]

I salute the Dutch!

[Andreas the Wise]

Personally.. I'm inclined to suggest you keep taking lands till they get the message they are developing them not for themselves, but for the nation and for the crown. It's not a matter of opinions of feudalism, it's a matter of definitions. Feudalism IS defined. Fief IS defined. What Kildare wants to believe on the matter is irrelevant.

Erik, you have succeeded in already guilting me into doing a lot more work for Shireroth in the last few weeks than my uni schedule can actual afford. It would be nice if you could please stop.

[Erik Mortis]

I'm not trying to guilt you to do work. I'm just tired of hearing about some none-feudal version of feudalism.

[Andreas the Wise]

Well just don't lose sight of the fact this is also a micronation.