Citizens Of Elwynn in Shireroth to recieve Voting Rights.

[Mari Greenwood]

In the interest of being progressive and attracting some real citizens that will live in the Duchy Of Elwynn in Shireroth.It is my inttention to allow citizens living in this duchy the right and freedom to vote. To help steer the course of Elwynn into the future. To work togeather on the econmy within Elwynn and develop Elwynn over all.Post your comments here.If you are not a citizen and do not live in Elwynn consider moving here.I as the duchess of Elwynn will value your opinions and offer you freedom and rights within this duchy.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

I don't know if I entirely approve of this...what exactly are you planning to do with this Mari? Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[david northworthy beckfor]

it appears to be a plan to bring more activity to shireroth David I Eric Vivian Northorthy Beckford KGCS KL OHDafitt Erick Wiffjan Nurtbefoon Bergsdrumfort"It's a dull man who can only find one way to spell a word"(Mark Twain)My Mission - To be a nuisence to all! (especialy to those I like!), and to be Kaiser of Shieroth by 14/07/04.Aim - hwsbossMSN - kingDaveofDerbyCLEAN UP SCUM! SUPPORT THE anse CONDEMNATION! BALLOT YOUR RULERS NOW!

[Mari Greenwood]

Geeze.You know me Jadie. And you know that I prefer to lead by using concenus. I still believe that a Leader should serve there people and be attentive to their needs. My allowing citizens in Elwynn to have a voice in this duchy I anticpate will have little effect outside this duchy.Unless of course, they are concerned about something at issue in the Landstradd that might change how I cast Elwynn's votes. I want to allow citizens who live in Elwynn a voice.All citizens are aware that Duchies along with leadership are passed down to successors. But I feel by allowing citizens a voice here and a vote that I am fullfilling an important and key responsiblity which is a step towards being a good leader.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*ponders*Okie dokie..as of now I have no problem with this.... So Carry on Mari!! Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[UEC]

Do you even have ANY citizens? hehe Than agian.. I don't really either..well.. Straylight and Shirlan.. but they tend to do their own things...Oh wait!.. you have Hyperborea.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Mari Greenwood]

Elwynn proper has citizens too.I intend to listen to thier voices and ideas.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

hmm...the idea of giving votes to average citizens is very un-Shirerothian... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[Mari Greenwood]

Perhaps it is time for change then?I prefer to give them the right to vote. Of course they know I will vote my mind in the landstradd. However, I think a Duchess should listen to the will and voice of the people.

[david northworthy beckfor]

dont worry niock, this dont mean illiterate kkk loving donut scoffing nascar watching american idol voting un-working class will be taking over the landsraad (thankfully. They are the reason that I am not a big fan of direct democracy) it just means that the people will be heard by the Duchess, who will hopefuilly take her peoples views into account. war trophy liberated from Babkha by the Federated NORworthic Liberation Devision (FNORD)

[Gryphon Avocatio]

David...that's only part of what she said. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[david northworthy beckfor]

the hope was that you had not heard the rest war trophy liberated from Babkha by the Federated NORworthic Liberation Devision (FNORD)

[Gryphon Avocatio]

hmm...the seeds of the destruction are germinating within the populace...and mari is throwing in the nitrogen-rich fertiliser of democracy...oh well...at least delvenus isn't stealing our citizens anymore... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[Mari Greenwood]

Delvenus is doing fine without stealing citizens! Ha Ha!And Democracy in Elwynn is working but does not seem to be spreading to other duchies so why worry?

[Scott Alexander]

Isn't one principle of Shireroth that Duchies can be democratic, autocratic, anarchic, communist, or whatever else they want to be and that's the point of having them be Duchies rather than the federal government?

[Phoenix the Risen]

That was my understanding... however, I see one problem with that... isn't that basically the way Tymaria was run? And didn't we say we were never going to have another Tymaria?(Yeah, I know it's before my time and I shouldn't be comparing, since I never did anything in Tymaria, but that's what it looked like to me... maybe someone should teach a class on Tymarian-era history...) Phoenix the Risen- Emissary and Counsel to Duke Gryphon the Pure of Kildare - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC, (In response to claims on the Raynor Isles)"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (In response to UEC)"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (In response to SaiKar LumEth)

[Scott Alexander]

Well, that doesn't mean we can't do ANYTHING Tymaria did...it had a lot of brilliant parts that prevented something as ill-conceived as that from falling apart for about six months...we just don't do the less intelligent things like throwing together eight nations that mostly loathed one another with a passion and expecting them to work together in harmony. And electing Jason Rhode Prime Executive. And [insert your own here]

[david northworthy beckfor]

Quote: That was my understanding... however, I see one problem with that... isn't that basically the way Tymaria was run? And didn't we say we were never going to have another Tymaria?yes, but what happend to tymneria cant happen here, has the duchies are on one board, and people will die if a duchie is aloud to leave....that reminds me...we let shiraiths land go...can we murder people now? war trophy liberated from Babkha by the Federated NORworthic Liberation Devision (FNORD)

[Phoenix the Risen]

that was different. They were not a political state. They were pretty much purely RP, and they attempted to use that as their politics, which kinda killed it. Shirlan was almost completely incompatible with Shireroth. Oh, and we let them go. They did not secede by their own decree. Phoenix the Risen- Emissary and Counsel to Duke Gryphon the Pure of Kildare - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth

[Mari Greenwood]

I have to be honest and say I know nothing about Tymira. But allowing the citizens of Elwynn to have a voice is not hurting anyone.

[david northworthy beckfor]

well....all I know of tymira is from legends and the word of those who remember it....I dont think the what is happening in elwynn will cuase a tymira like scenario war trophy liberated from Babkha by the Federated NORworthic Liberation Devision (FNORD)

[Draco the Tainted]

it will only do so if it is spread to the other duchies... which I will not let happen *glares at nobody in particular*Oh, and if the Kaiser has the ability to suspend the constitution *glares at umm... nobody? in particular*...which... I really don't have much say in right now... EzCode Parsing Error:]Heil Loki!!![
EzCode Parsing Error:]Heil H'Graa!!![

[Mari Greenwood]

"sigh"So much worry over Elwynn giving its people a voice. I really do not understand why.

[Draco the Tainted]

we are not worrying. As above post says... we do not have reason to worry yet. EzCode Parsing Error:]Heil Loki!!![
EzCode Parsing Error:]Heil H'Graa!!![

[Mari Greenwood]

Oh good!YAY!It is not good for you to worry!

[Draco the Tainted]

*growls at EzCode* Heil Loki!!!
Heil H'Graa!!!

[Mari Greenwood]

Ha Ha!For the most part I do not even try to use it.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

The "worry" that you refer to is a result of the fact that shireroth is not a democratic nation. If you go in and try to change the principles that the nation was founded on, you are bound to feel a backlash from those of us who have been working for years at trying to sustain this place. If you have paid any attention to the history of micronations, democracies collapse, and we don't want that. Not only that, but adding "voting rights" to Shireroth would be shock to the carefully balanced system that we have created. By allowing voting, and in fact, by allowing "rights," you basically undermine the basis of this nation. This is Shireroth. We are a monarchy. The word of the Kaiser is law. The Landsraad is an uneccesary body that exists purely by the benevolence of the Kaiser, mostly to pacify those of you who like to get up on a soap box and rant about how everybody should have a voice. Let me tell you something whilst I stand upon my soap box: If you want democracy, go try to save Delvenus or Menelmacar. That is the fate of democracy. Don't spread it's ruin here. There is no democracy here, and there shall never be. Further attempts to spread it will lead to your ruin, believe me. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[Draco the Tainted]

Umm... Nick... Shireroth was a direct democracy for awhile... granted, it is no longer... but yeah... it was, and it worked... even though the Kaiser went against a couple democratically determined things... such as the ASC... but it was there. Heil Loki!!!
Heil H'Graa!!!

[Gryphon Avocatio]

I knew that somebody would point that out...*grumble* damn you elders...wait...never mind...There is a reason erik got rid of the direct democracy. He realised that it didn't work. It didn't last long at all, not even a conciderable amount of time...and a direct democracy with les than five citizens (i think that was the population...not sure)? The point is, we aren't a democracy. If you want democracy, go somewhere else. We won't harbour it here. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike