Imperial Decree 337 - Amending the Charter.

[Kaiser Loki III]

The following amendments are added to the Charter of Shireroth. They shall be considered in effect when the Praetor so notes below.

Section B: Right to Counsel
No one shall be deprived of counsel of zir choice without restriction in any legal proceeding in Shireroth.

Section C: Equality of Dukes and Duchies
All Dukes and Duchies are equal under the Kaiser. No Duke or Duchy shall be deprived of it's equality without the consent of the Kaiser, the Duke of the Duchy concerned, and the Landsraad.

The Charter now reads as Follows in it's entirety:

Imperial Charter of the Lands of Shireroth
Article I: The Kaiser.
Section A: Definition of the Kaisership.
The Kaiser of Shireroth is the Supreme ruler, and Noble, of the Lands of Shireroth. The Kaisership may be held by both male and female rulers. A male ruler shall be known as a Kaiser, a female ruler shall be known as a Kaiseress. The term "Kaiser" may be used to refer to the Kaisership without regard to gender. This document shall use the masculine to refer to both genders.

Section B: Powers of the Kaiser.
All supreme Executive, Legislative, and Judicial powers of Shireroth shall be vested in the Kaiser. The Kaiser may make any decree regarding the operation, behavior, functions and/or policy of Shireroth, as well as any actions he deems fit, as long as they do not violate this Charter. The Kaiser is the Supreme Commander of all Militia, Military, and/or any other armed forces within Shireroth and/or under Shireroth control. The Kaiser may delegate his powers to lesser officials known as Ministers. All Imperial Law, set down by the Kaiser shall be recorded in the Decreebook.

Section C: Heir to the Throne.
The Kaiser before the end of his life reign as Kaiser must pick a successor from among all living individuals, eligible by birthright. Should the Kaiser die or abdicate the throne, the Kaisership shall pass to his successor. Should no heir have been chosen, the successor shall be the closest related, living individual eligible by birthright. The Kaiser may hold no citizenships outside of Shireroth.

Section D: The Steward.
In times when a successor is below thirteen years of age, a Steward of Shireroth shall be appointed by a majority of the Landsraad, if there is no current Steward. A steward shall be appointed by the Kaiser or Landsraad should the Kaiser take temporary leave of his throne. Should the Kaiser have no stated heir, the Steward shall become the head of Shireroth until a successor can be found. Should no Steward be appointed at this time, the Landsraad shall convene and elect one. The Landsraad may also elect a Steward at anytime they feel one is necessary, with the approval of the Kaiser. The Kaiser may at anytime appoint or dismiss a Steward. The Steward of Shireroth shall be vested with all the Executive, Legislative and Judicial powers of the Kaiser but may not repeal or amend Imperial Decrees of the Kaiser. When there is no Kaiser upon the throne the Steward may hold no citizenship outside of Shireroth. The steward is subject to all restrictions placed upon the Kaiser by the Charter.

Article II: Landsraad.
Section A: Powers of the Landsraad.
The Landsraad shall be vested, through the good grace of the Kaiser, with the legislative powers of Shireroth. The Landsraad may set its own rules for voting percentages and procedures, and internal decorum, without outside interference. Any bill, act, measure, dictate, statement or order passed, issued by, or put before the Landsraad may be vetoed by the Kaiser for any reason, at any time. The Kaiser may vest others with veto powers over the Landsraad, second only to the Kaiser. The Landsraad may take no action that violates this Charter, the Lawbook, or Imperial Decrees of the Kaiser. Neither the Landsraad, nor any body it creates, has authority or jurisdiction over the Kaiser or this Charter. All law set down by the Landsraad shall be recorded in the Lawbook.

Section B: Sessions of the Landsraad.
The Kaiser has the power to dismiss and recall to session the Landsraad at anytime. Should the Kaiser die or abdicate the throne, the Landsraad shall be automatically called to session. The Landsraad may dismiss itself from Session at any time, unless there is no Steward or Kaiser on the throne. If there is neither a Kaiser nor a Steward, the Landsraad is automatically called to session.

Section C: Members of the Landsraad.
The Landsraad shall consist of the Nobles of Shireroth. Nobles may pick their own successor from among those eligible by birthright. Should no heir be available the Kaiser shall appoint the next Noble. The Kaiser has the power to create and destroy Sub-Divisions, as he sees fit. The Landsraad may remove a Sub-Division´s seat from the Landsraad, thereby disbanding the Subdivision completely and redefining the lands as necessary. The Kaiser has the power to reshape the borders of any Sub-Division, as he sees fit.
Only Nobles of Shireroth or Emissaries appointed by a Noble may speak and/or vote within the Landsraad. The Nobles of the Landsraad may allow non-Nobles to speak within the Landsraad, under procedures specified by the Landsraad. Nobles of Shireroth may not violate this Charter, Imperial Decrees, Landsraad Procedures, or the Lawbook.

Section D: The Prætor
The Prætor of Shireroth may only be elected by the nobility of the land, from among the Full-Citizens of the Land. The Prætor does not have to be a Noble of Shireroth. The Kaiser shall manage the election of the Prætor by the Landsraad, and shall act as Prætor of the Landsraad until one is immediately elected. The Prætor of Shireroth shall preside over the Landsraad as chairman. His purpose and duty shall be to call a meeting of the Landsraad to order, tally votes, close votes, generally manage, and keep order within the Landsraad; as well as keep records of all bills and resolutions passed during his tenure. The Landsraad may further specify the powers of the Prætor within the Landsraad. The Prætor may not violate this Charter, Imperial Decrees, Landsraad Procedures, or the Lawbook.

Article III: The Arbiter
Section A: Powers of The Arbiter
The Arbiter of Shireroth is vested with Judicial Powers second only to the Kaiser. The Arbiter is appointed by the Kaiser. The Arbiter may not be an officer of the Landsraad, the Kaiser, or the Steward. The Arbiter may be dismissed by the Kaiser or a 2/3rd vote of the Landsraad. The Arbiter will be the head of the Imperial Judex. The Precise operation and powers of the Judex and the Arl be specified by the Landsraad. Neither the Arbiter, nor Imperial Judex may violate this Charter, Imperial Decree or the Lawbook.

Section B: Special Powers of The Arbiter
The Arbiter may overturn any act or resolution passed by the Landsraad should said act or resolution violate Imperial Decree or this Charter. The Arbiter may, with unanimous consent of the Landsraad and the Prætor, nullify any order or decree of the Kaiser, which violates this Charter. Other than those specified, the Arbiter has no authorities over the Kaiser.

Article IV: Amendments
Section A: Amending The Charter.
The Kaiser may make amendments to this Charter at anytime, with the approval of the Prætor. Should there be no Prætor, the Landsraad must immediately elect one. This charter may not be abolished, dissolved or revoked. All amendments to this Charter must be documented.

Section B: Right to Counsel
No one shall be deprived of counsel of zir choice without restriction in any legal proceeding in Shireroth.

Section C: Equality of Dukes and Duchies
All Dukes and Duchies are equal under the Kaiser. No Duke or Duchy shall be deprived of it's equality without the consent of the Kaiser, the Duke of the Duchy concerned, and the Landsraad.

Done, this Thorsday, being the 17th of H'Graasreign, in the Year 3412 ASC.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Protip 1: "its equality", not "it's equality"

Protip 2: Amendments to the charter have traditionally been incorporated into the relevant sections (or created as new sections with their own titles), not tacked on at the end. (I do realise that it says that amendments must be documented, but surely you can be a little bit more flexible about the exact format of the documentation)

The amendment for the right to counsel is overly strong. It needs to say (in a more nicely written form than what I provide) something more like: "The Landsraad is restricted in what legislation it may pass such that: Everyone must be guaranteed *some* kind of competent counsel, but people must still be allowed ask you to pay for it or reject the job unless they're the public defender or something. Look in the lawbook for the definitions of "competent" and for the procedure on how to find counsel."

The amendment for the equality of dukes and duchies seems unnecessary - and I say this as the only person in Shirithian history who ever actually managed to be a duke without a duchy . I'm not a big fan of calling things equal anyway. There's a reason Common Lisp has five different equality predicates - equality is a vague term that means different things to different people in different contexts.



Oh, and while we're amending the Charter...

- "Imperial Charter of the Lands of Shireroth" <- the "lands of" makes no sense, where did it even come from in the first place?

- "A male ruler shall be known as a Kaiser, a female ruler shall be known as a Kaiseress. " <- we could drop this sentence without hurting anything important.

- "This document shall use the masculine to refer to both genders." <- we're Shirithians, couldn't we just rewrite the whole thing using gender-neutral pronouns?

- "All Imperial Law, set down by the Kaiser shall be recorded in the Decreebook." <- this comma's a bit strange, and I'm pretty certain it's unnecessary

- "The Kaiser before the end of his life reign as Kaiser must pick a successor from among all living individuals, eligible by birthright." <- again lose the comma that's in there (in the wrong place) and put some in where they belong

- "Should no heir have been chosen, the successor shall be the closest related, living individual eligible by birthright." <- ... PRH, forget pointing out all the mispunctuation sentence by sentence, there's just too much of it

Ah, this section is getting way too long. I'll work further on fixing the grammar and listing the issues I have with wording and such tonight or tomorrow or sometime. I have to post this first to ensure it doesn't seem like there's no criticism of these amendments .


tl;dr: Please don't approve this, Jonas, or please at least take it to the Landsraad first. If we're going to amend the charter it should be to fix it, and to provide working, well-defined (i.e. possibly general but not vague) solutions to actual problems (either ones that have already been met or that have been foreseen and explained).

[Jonas]

I will wait untill further changes are added. But if it takes to long... PASSED!

[Ari Rahikkala]

It's the Charter, we can take our time getting it right . I posted a new thread on amending the Charter, focusing on the big problems with the current Charter and these amendments... I'll complete that list of changes to punctuation and sentence structure, etc. and apply it to the Charter once we've gotten the big stuff out of the way.

[Kaiser Loki III]

One of my pet peeves have been the attempt to restrict the right to counsel, restricting it to the learned sanctioned by the State.

This is an attempt to put this beyond the reach of those who would do such.

My other problem has been with the money is erbs voting system. Equal dukes/duchies have equal votes.

I beseech Lord Jonas to approve this per our discussions, as it is my swan song, so to speak, my legacy.

If everything gets all amended and re-written later, c'est la vie.

Loki, ex-kaiser

[Jonas]

I beseech Lord Jonas to approve this per our discussions, as it is my swan song, so to speak, my legacy.

Can't ignore... last will... of the Kaiser... feel the urge... to sign...
After passing this vague amendments the people (by Mors, why do I say this ) can always do proposals to amend it.

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

I say sign it now, we're working on other amendments and this is already decreed anyway...

[Jonas]

*Signs it*

[Erik Mortis]

I wholly oppose this in every possible way! Rights do not belong in Shireroth.

It is my hope the Praetor rejects this Amendment.... ...FUCK.


...I am very angry.


This is a frivolous amendment to a document that should try to take a minimalist approach. I honestly think this is one of the worst moves every taken by a Kaiser/Praetor.

If you wanted this "right" bestowed, it should have been done through the Landsraad. Now it is beyond their reach completely, and even on the edge of what Kaiser's can effect.

The charter is meant to be a document at the BASE of Shireroth law. Not the details. If you wanted this above the Landsraad, then it should have gone into the DecreeBook.

I see this as an act of Hubris. The Charter is meant to protect the essential STRUCTURE of the nation. And you have placed your personal whims in it!

The amendment process was meant to keep such whims out of the Charter, but the Praetor has failed to realize the gravity of his powers here.

I am angered, and disappointed.

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

Erik, the Charter is yours to amend as you see fit when you are Kaiser, as it is the right of every Kaiser. Yes, this is an abuseable right, but there have been instances of it in the past, no?

[Jess]

*Signs it*

Thank you Jonas! Yey!

[Erik Mortis]

Yes. I think there is 1. And it was met with derision and removed later. But now it's harder(in theory) to add and remove things from the Charter. And this just perpetuates/sets a bad precedent at best.

I don't argue the Kaiser can do. I just say he shouldn't. And doing it "on the way out" is kinda.. well, questionable to me.

I've said it before. Just because the Kaiser CAN do a thing, doesn't mean he SHOULD do that thing.

[Jonas]

You gave proposals, I think the Kaiser can consider them. And I will sign.

[Malliki]

I agree with Erik on this. Section B should have gone into the DecreeBook and Section C is completely unnecessary. I am not surprised though that the amendment was sanctioned by the Prætor. I have a feeling that Jonas would approve just about any change to the Charter that Jacobus could have thought of.

I know that the term is frowned upon in Shireroth, but the Imperial Charter is our constitution. Adding this highly subjective and detail managing section to it violates the core principles of Shirerithian jurisprudence. The Charter is supposed to be stripped down and only handle the core of the Shireithian political system. If the ex-Kaiser wanted this section to become law he should have put it through the Landsraad or put it in the DecreeBook. This action means that the section will stay as long as Jonas is Prætor. It also means that the approval of the Prætor has been reduced to a rubber stamp. The Prætor is supposed to look beyond his personal views and stop the Kaiser from adding precisely this type of rules to the Charter.

[Jacobus Loki]

I was righting wrongs as I saw them. Jonas agreed with these proposals.

Those that oppose them have the right to yell and scream.

I find it ironic that Lord Erik of all people becomes upset when a Kaiser uses the power that is given to him.

Shireroth should be as broadly based as possible while remaining special, without becoming elitist.

As far as doing this going out the door, that is part accident and part design. I saw a need. I saw an abuse, and did what was in my power, within the Charter , to fix it. I did not think it fair to leave Corey to deal with this as Steward, but to leave him Power.

If I were really the terrible person some claim, I'd have done this after my return, stayed on the Throne, and probably fought a Civil War over it. As it stands, the system can deal with whatever it needs to.

I agree with Erik, that the Charter should be brief. That's why the language of the amejndments were so vague.

PS- And it genrated ACTIVTY!

[Erik Mortis]

I do not argue about your right and power to do this. I support it completely. If someone said you didn't, I would have argue that you did. I argue that you shouldn't have. That it was a mistake.

The Charter is not there for "righting" social wrongs. It is there for "righting" structural mistakes. You're granting of rights should have been put into the Decreebook. And Jonas should have been paying attention to his responsibility to protect the Landsraad.

[Jacobus Loki]

Then let's return to a discussion of reforming the system, and at least lay off of Jonas?

[Erik Mortis]

The System is fine. If the Praetor understands his role as a protector of the Landsraad.

[Jacobus Loki]

Jonas cannot read your mind. Neither can I.

Let that be a lesson for all future Kaisers and Praetors.

Sorry for the chaos. Not for my actions, but for the firestorm. See my note in "General".

[Ari Rahikkala]

Jonas cannot read your mind. Neither can I.

Actually, they invented a substitute for telepathy. We call it communication. It's especially useful to try it before making big, possible controversial decisions like amending the Charter .

[Erik Mortis]

It's also what the IAC is for...

[Jacobus Loki]

Sorry. The "telepathy" comments were more to the Praetors' situation.

I was revelling in all the nice things folks were saying, then WHAM. My after-comments were out of line, as were those of others.

Rail at me all you want. (This is a walk in the park compared to ancient days.) I'm the EEvil Jacobus, after all.

But the lambasting of Jonas is utterly, completely, totally out of line. Here is someone whose loyalty and integrity are and always have been above reproach. Here is someone whose continuous service to Shireroth goes back before the days of Mors V.

Without Jonas there may not have EVER BEEN a Mors V. Without Jonas Shireroth would likely be only a fond memory today.

I urge those who disagree with decisons taken out of conviction and loyaty to remember who they are blasting, and to pause and consider why they are blasting him. They may find some day that loyalty is more valuable than an adversarial relationship.

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

I rolled with it simply because there was intent to re-amend the charter anyway. No harm done. Not yet at least...

1st) There are no plans for a trial soon, nor do we have any structure for lawyers in the Judex, really...
2nd) "No Duke or Duchy shall be deprived of it's equality without the consent of the Kaiser, the Duke of the Duchy concerned, and the Landsraad." Surely we all give consent to the current voting situation in the Landsraad? I'm not seeing much of any other way this affects our current situation.

[Erik Mortis]

I never questioned his loyalty or integrity. I continue to acknowledge Jonas as a loyal, protective and active member of this nation. I like Jonas.

...But I am questioning his judgment in allowing this amendment to proceed.

It has also made me realize, as I sat in class today, that the Praetor is not enough...

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

Surely we all give consent to the current voting situation in the Landsraad?

Just as a note, this should be read as a threat.

[Jonas]

I have a feeling that Jonas would approve just about any change to the Charter that Jacobus could have thought of.

Prove it, mr. Fors. If I support an amendment (and I do) then I sign it, so I did. For example, the equality of the Dukes is something that I support. Some think it's in some way a rule to bring back the one-vote-system, and if it is then you will not hear me complaining. But it's not! Because this is a vague rule, this doesn't affect the current situation.

I never questioned his loyalty or integrity. I continue to acknowledge Jonas as a loyal, protective and active member of this nation. I like Jonas.

Thank you.

...But I am questioning his judgment in allowing this amendment to proceed.

That's your opinion, but I will not change my toughts because of these questions about my judgement. However, I can always dismiss if you guys want it.

It has also made me realize, as I sat in class today, that the Praetor is not enough...

Oh no!


I will sign new amendments after a charterial convention is held if necessary.

[Malliki]

Prove it, mr. Fors. If I support an amendment (and I do) then I sign it, so I did. For example, the equality of the Dukes is something that I support. Some think it's in some way a rule to bring back the one-vote-system, and if it is then you will not hear me complaining. But it's not! Because this is a vague rule, this doesn't affect the current situation.

A feeling cannot be proved. It is what it is, a feeling. These amendments should not have been approved, not because I disagree with their content, which I do, but because Section B does not belong in the Charter and Section C is too poorly written.

I never questioned his loyalty or integrity. I continue to acknowledge Jonas as a loyal, protective and active member of this nation. I like Jonas.

...But I am questioning his judgment in allowing this amendment to proceed.

I totally agree with what Erik said. I like you too Jonas, just not this action.

However, I can always dismiss if you guys want it.

I think you're generally a very good Praetor, but if you don't even realize that your primary job is to protect the Landsraad, I'm not so sure anymore.

[Jacobus Loki]

I discussed this with the Praetor quite a while before it happened.

The timing sucked. My fault there, but RL issues were in my face, and this was something that needed done.

The equality amendment was meant to

A- Restore one duke, one vote.
B- Prevent the Anchluss of one duchy by another.

The Kaiser and the Praetor simply agreed. Amazing concept, but true.

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

Anchluss

Anschluss, perhaps?

Certainly you knew that was a joke!

[Prodigy Almighty]

Oh no!

JONAS SAID OH NO INSTEAD OF OW NO!