The future of the Government

[Malliki Tosha]

I left largely due to the fact that Shireroth is out of ideas and direction. This is a perfect example of that, solving a problem by going backwards.

[Jacobus Loki]

There is nothing wrong in admitting that an ideal was less than perfect, and finding strength in one's history and in traditions that work.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.

Long Live Kaiser B'Caw and the Line of Raynor!
Malarbor, Shireroth and Liberty!

http://www.shireroth.org/anthem1.mid

(Edited for typos)

[Harald of Froyalan]

I left largely due to the fact that Shireroth is out of ideas and direction. This is a perfect example of that, solving a problem by going backwards.

And the House System was introduced to deal with the problems, such as stagnation and reactionary inertia, that the Duchy System caused.

[Malliki Tosha]

Yeah, waving the flag around and going back to a system we left for one reason or another is not going to solve anything. If Shireroth is going to become stronger from this, there has to be real and lasting change, not just turning back the clock as always.

[Jacobus Loki]

Are you coming home, or are you saying this as a citizen of a potentially adversarial power?

[Harvey Steffke]

If the source bothers you, you can consider me having said the same thing as still a citizen.

[Jacobus Loki]

Harvey, your cool, it not the idea, its the source.

I need to annoy Mike regularly or he'll think I'm not paying attention.

[Harvey Steffke]

Oh, well, I think that's a cause we can all get behind.

[Jacobus Loki]

Oh, well, I think that's a cause we can all get behind.

And on multiple continents, too!

[Ryan]

Here's a radical idea:

Step 1. Eliminate all political subdivisions of Shireroth
Step 2. Historical areas (e.g. Yardistan, Kildare, etc) become "regions" ~ meaning land names (like Apollonia, Keltia, Eura, etc) not political designations
Step 3. Dissolve entire government and hold an interim constitutional congress composed of all citizens
Step 4. Reboot the government based on the decisions of the concon
Step 5. Reboot the political subdivisions along entirely new boundaries

Why would this work?

1. Because Shireroth has worked itself into a corner over the course of ten years. It needs to clear some deadweight or face an untimely demise.
2. Because the entire populace has some issue with the government, the only way to work out the kinks is to have a concon.
3. Because the political subdivisions are so entrenched that the only way to get around it is to eliminate them and simply retain the names as regional designations.
4. Because people have become too attached to subtleties, the only way to eliminate this bias is to reboot the entire system - government and subdivisions alike.

[CJ Miller]

It a wery nice I like.

[Jacobus Loki]

Because something is important to someone, destroy it.

What is wrong with this picture? My kinsman Steward Nikkolo had the right idea.

I'm thinking Oustfest and reboot.

[Erik Mortis]

Elwynn would never agree to that Ryan. It's effectively the opposite of what they want.

[Andreas the Wise]

I can semi-agree with Ryan.

[Jonas]

I can't really agree with the idea of disbanding Kildare as a political subdivision (even for a while). It has been harmed by the House system, what assures me of getting what we want (that is: Apollonian counties and the counties of our members on Benacia)? I know it sound egoistic, but I'm very attached to my historical region and would like to rebuild it (I'm busy with a project around it right now ) and would like to avoid too many shocks.

[Ryan]

Jonas, your statement is exactly what is wrong with Shireroth. People like yourself, who are too entrenched in the "culture" they've developed, are entirely unwilling to accept change. There would be nothing to stop you from rebuilding a new state along similar lines as Kildare if the system was rebooted. Political boundaries come and go all the time; that doesn't destroy culture.

So long as people continue to hold on to their cultures in an unmovable death-grip, nothing is going to change here, and this place will continue to become more tightly wound around individuals rather than the community. And at some point it will strangle itself to death.

[Jonas]

Jonas, your statement is exactly what is wrong with Shireroth. People like yourself, who are too entrenched in the "culture" they've developed, are entirely unwilling to accept change. There would be nothing to stop you from rebuilding a new state along similar lines as Kildare if the system was rebooted. Political boundaries come and go all the time; that doesn't destroy culture.

So long as people continue to hold on to their cultures in an unmovable death-grip, nothing is going to change here, and this place will continue to become more tightly wound around individuals rather than the community. And at some point it will strangle itself to death.

I have no problem with accepting certain changes but I don't see why we should recreate subdivisions and neither see it as the problem.
And you're mistaking: a while back, when Kildare was inactive, I proposed to join another House, so don't tell me that I'm entrenched (at least, not totally ). I'm just not seeing the point of reinventing things to just give the impression that things change.
The best is that we now create three Duchies and see from there: if there are groups that want to create a different Duchy, I will not stop them.
Your idea sounds like it would solve everything but these are the facts: after having re-established new borders you will end up with just the same situation OR everyone will stay arguing about the borders of their new subdivision (which should be the same as their old one for the most of us).

It's no secret that I want to be a Kildarian within Shireroth and not a Brookshirerithian, Elwynnese, Yardistani,...
One of the problems is that some have tried to destroy those subdivisions we're attached to. That's what caused these current problems in the first place: we don't recognise that we're a community of which the members want to have their own place to develop without interference of others.

[Jacobus Loki]

Precisely as Jonas said. There are those of us who had our homes stripped from us by an overreaching central authority trying to force people to do things.

If I had found any support at all, I'd have done with Yardistan nearly the same thing that Elwynn is doing, to try to save it as an entity. I didn't, and Yardistan is dead. Somehow, I feel responsible to some degree for that death.

Of course, at the time, it would have been written off as Jake's ego going batshit.

I loved Shireroth more than I did Yardistan, I guess, and Kildare gave me shelter and acceptance.

[Harvey Steffke]

There would be nothing to stop you from rebuilding a new state along similar lines as Kildare if the system was rebooted.

Then what the HACK is the point of the reboot?!

The house system was supposed to encourage fluid boundaries and shifty alliance, but all of the old duchies just became houses. There was next to no intermixing. It would be the same thing if you tore everything down... people would just rebuild the cores in the same places they were before.

[Jonas]

Then what the HACK is the point of the reboot?!

The house system was supposed to encourage fluid boundaries and shifty alliance, but all of the old duchies just became houses. There was next to no intermixing. It would be the same thing if you tore everything down... people would just rebuild the cores in the same places they were before.

That's my point.

[Ryan]

Then what the HACK is the point of the reboot?!

The house system was supposed to encourage fluid boundaries and shifty alliance, but all of the old duchies just became houses. There was next to no intermixing. It would be the same thing if you tore everything down... people would just rebuild the cores in the same places they were before.

I see your point, but I still think the slate needs to be wiped clean. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but as it stands only superficial changes are being made to accommodate people. It's not enough change to make a difference in the long run, and it leaves those who are entrenched, still entrenched.

[Erik Mortis]

Ryan, your idea is just what we did with Houses taken even farther into a direction. You are right. See Elwynn as the result. but it's not a possibility.

[Jacobus Loki]

Why do thw most recent group of refugees to Antica want us to make the most radical changes in Shireroth?

[CJ Miller]

They want to invade from within.

[Malliki Tosha]

Why do thw most recent group of refugees to Antica want us to make the most radical changes in Shireroth?

Perhaps because we left for a reason? At least I did. If it's going to be more of the same old things again, I'm probably not going to bother to come back. I know that you are content with anything that sets Shireroth back 10 years, but I'm not. Evolve or die.

[Jonas]

Perhaps because we left for a reason? At least I did. If it's going to be more of the same old things again, I'm probably not going to bother to come back. I know that you are content with anything that sets Shireroth back 10 years, but I'm not. Evolve or die.

Setting Shireroth back 10 years? So... back to a real Republic?

[Malliki Tosha]

You know what I mean! Jeez... This is what always happens in Shireroth when change is needed. The clock is turned back, and the change turns out to be more of the same.

[Ryan]

Perhaps because we left for a reason? At least I did. If it's going to be more of the same old things again, I'm probably not going to bother to come back. I know that you are content with anything that sets Shireroth back 10 years, but I'm not. Evolve or die.

Ditto.

[Jacobus Loki]

Mike, Ryan, you are both top-flight micronationalists par excellance.

I understand the reasons for leaving. But if you want to be taken seriously, you really need to claim citizenship. Otherwise, you seem as intelligent foreigners whose motive may be friendly, or may very well be the weakening of Shireroth.

You have no stake at this time, and thus your comments are suspect.

And of course, I am only a private Shirithian citizen speaking only for my self.

[Malliki Tosha]

I will claim citizenship when I see what there is to come back to. At the moment, I feel neither inclined to do so nor wanted back.