Negotiations with Elwynn

[Harvey Steffke]

"I say this as a private citizen and not a representative of such and such" is one of the biggest micronational cop-outs of all time. Much like Erik gets accused of going all Founder on us every so often, you, Daniel, are the heart and face of Elwynn, and anything you say will be taken as Elwynn's view no matter if you like it or not.

[Erik Mortis]

Harvey is right. Ric, you represent one of 2, maybe 3 people. You can't claim to just be a "private" citizen on this matter. You are also the leader of Elwynn. Thus everything you say, as everything the Kaiser says, matters.

And how is that different from what has traditionally been true of Shireroth? Each Duchy was always free to call it's leader whatever it wanted, and use whatever internal rules it wanted. Kildare had it's Dutch, Yardistan had its Anarch. And both had the Saenad and Diet respectively. Elwynn had it's council and Prince. It was the House system that messed it all up. What you want is the return to Duchies, and to that I can agree, and for some clear protections from the Imperial Government, to that I can agree. So what exactly is missing here? From the start something has felt wrong about this entire situation, but I wanted to go with it.

Decentralization and the return of Local Prerogative, these are needed. And I see this as the goals you seek. So why does it feel like you have no real interest in these, as a means of reconciliation?

[Daniel Farewell]

Kaiser B'Caw,

I am in agreement.

Daniel

[Kaiser B'caw I]

Very well. I have requested the creation of the negotiation forum.

[Erik Mortis]

Erik Mortis, Daniel Farewell, and Aurangzeb Khan

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I oppose these negotiations.

The Elwynnese are right about practically all their points, but this was the wrong way to go about presenting them. I am sick of rebellions, I'm sick of the attitude that you rebel first and ask questions later, and I'm sick of the attitude that rebels always get let back into the country with all their demands satisfied. I'm also pissed off that Daniel and Ardashir didn't feel the need to even talk to me, one of the three Elwynnese citizens, before going through with this, and haven't even responded to my PM asking for an explanation.

I request that the Kaiser name me Duke of Elwynn and simply break off all relations with the rest of the Elwynnese. If they want to hang around in Antica or somewhere, they can see how much fun they can have with only two people. If they want to come back to Shireroth, they can join as private citizens and see if the Kaiser wants to give them their land back.

[Daniel Farewell]

Scott,

I am sorry that I didn't speak to you about this. Please don't be angry. The reason for that was that was that you were away... Plainly.

ANd as for your PM, I did receive it, and then I thought I had answered it.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

You're a good guy, I'm sure you had your reasons for not telling me, and your negotiating points are correct, but SECESSION NO NEGOTIATION YES. And the part where you fake moving to Antica right around the same time as the Apostasy of Straylight was in particularly bad taste.

[Daniel Farewell]

So I've been told...

Well.. we're trying to sort this out now. In retrospect things could have been handled more... let's say... eloquently.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

I request that the Kaiser name me Duke of Elwynn and simply break off all relations with the rest of the Elwynnese. If they want to hang around in Antica or somewhere, they can see how much fun they can have with only two people. If they want to come back to Shireroth, they can join as private citizens and see if the Kaiser wants to give them their land back.

I intend to see their latest response before deciding taking any such route. I believe that both Erik and myself have made it clear, Erik probably having done so better than myself, that there are points that Shireroth is not willing to bend on. If this proves unacceptable to the other Elwynnese, then steps may be taken.

[Harvey Steffke]

If anyone's keeping score, I'm still pretty annoyed that potentially Shireroth-shattering negotiations are being hammered out in a private forum. I've seen some of the Elwyneese demands and they're things I have very strong opinions on but shouldn't even know about through the public channels.

[Elliot Markham]

I could understand some moderate loss of Shirerithian territory or moderately increased autonomy for the Elywnnese breakaway areas, but anything "potentially Shireroth-shattering" I oppose.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

If anyone's keeping score, I'm still pretty annoyed that potentially Shireroth-shattering negotiations are being hammered out in a private forum. I've seen some of the Elwyneese demands and they're things I have very strong opinions on but shouldn't even know about through the public channels.

...I did say, when people complained, that if Shirerithian citizens preferred to see the negotiations I wasn't going to make a fuss about it, I thought? Is read access still denied?

[Harvey Steffke]

Yeah. I don't see this forum anywhere on the list.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I just granted read-only access to all four Houses, which ought to work reasonably well in place of the Citizens group we don't have. If any Shirerithian not in a House wants access, let me know.

PS: It's a subforum in the Kaiser's Court.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

Elliot Markham appears not to be in a House.

Given this, though, the whole thing might be moot.

[Harvey Steffke]

Erik seemed annoyed about on who's authority you granted the permissions, Scott. I wanted to tell him it was one of those "aph melliokuem satkiokuem" things, but by the time I found that reference he had left the chat

[Scott of Hyperborea]

On the grounds of implicit Kaiserial permission, but I like your answer better.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

I suppose I could've put it more officially...

And would I regret asking what "aph melliokuem satkiokuem" is supposed to mean? Google seemed not to know.