Greater Automatica

[RicLyon]

My Lady,As you know, you have granted Iain de Vembria the County of Greater Automatica. Ryan and Bill, however, believe that you did that unlawfully, and that Greater Automatica is a protectorate. Furthermore, Ryan and Bill just recently signed a "treaty" stating that Greater Automatica was to be "moved" and "incorporated" to Antya.I hereby ask you to clarify the status of the Elwynnese County of Greater Automatica.Respectfully,Richard Lyon

[Ryan]

p211.ezboard.com/fshirero...=1&stop=20Refer to the above thread which details out the history of Greater Automatica's relationship with Shireroth.And the original website of GA:automatica.0catch.com/index.htmlI am trying to find the appointment thread where Iain was given GA as a county. Something was clarified there as well in regards to the county/protectorate relationship. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[Osman Shahanshah]

p211.ezboard.com/fshirero...=201.topicQuote:In the interests of territorial congruity, and as per the request of the subjects of Shireroth who reside within Elwynn, Sir Iain has been granted the County of Greater Automatica--to do with as he so chooses within the feudal structure of Shireroth.

[Ryan]

AHA! I found it!p211.ezboard.com/fshirero...=491.topic Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[RicLyon]

Thanks for the links, Ryan. I still feel that would not be enough to oust Iain from Greater Automatica, as Iain (and as a consequence, Elwynn) was/were given Greater Automatica. Not the land, but also the name of the county.But I will leave it to the Kaiseress. Should she not want to clarify, then I guess Erik will have a job.

[Osman Shahanshah]

Quote: It shouldn't. He has been granted feudal rights to the land (meaning he can rule his subjects and claim minor nobility for being a count, as well as enter into feudal contract), but the status of the land itself shouldn't be an issue. It's like renting a car.Now let me get this straight, it is freely associated, but has been given to Iain. It can manage its affairs as it pleases as an autonomous protectorate... but it has been given to Iain. So the land is the car and the ruler is the driver. The driver according is Iain, the direction the car takes is his choice.So can we please check that the agreement with Greater Automatica [Ryan] hasn't been invalidated by the various feudal reorganisations that have occured and which certainly included Greater Automatica as merely one among any number of counties that could be distributed as the Kaiseress pleased.

[RicLyon]

And oh, Comstokia was a protectorate - now a part of the feudal structure. Precedent anybody? Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

[Ryan]

I was under the impression that the countship would remain intact over the land. Thus Iain would attain the title of Count of Mistikal. Kind of like how a tenant can't dictate what the apartment building looks like on the outside. But, again, the land still remains in free association. So before such a title is granted, perhaps now is a good a time as any to get some clarification on this.The Kaiseress specifically stated "minor nobility" in reference to Iain, which would suggest my authority overrules him. But I can't say that for sure. That was the impression me and Bill have been working under. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[RicLyon]

I think it'd be my and the Kaiseress' authority that could overrule him. Not yours. And uhh... even if you have the right to move Gr Automatica, you wouldn't have the right to rename it. If we had to rename it, then surely Iain would choose the name...I'm awaiting you, my dear and lovely Kaiseress Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

[Ryan]

If I choose to dissolve the protectorate then noone in Shireroth gets it....I'm not trying to be a prick here, but I put GA in Shireroth in order to protect it. There has been considerable discussion as to the accuracy of where GA was located in regards to the fact that there is a competing Automatica in New Jasonia. It was decided that in order to make history jive better, this treaty was the best way to move forward. Bill gets GA moved to New Jasonia on the basis he protects what I developed in regards to the principality. Thus we both get what we want.Of course that leaves the question of the land up in the air. Technically, what it is now is simply an unnamed swath of land in free association which, if I were to choose so, could become independent of Shireroth. However, I purposefully noted that the protectorate treaty would be renegotiated so that Shireroth could keep the land and thus, besides the name, the county titles would not be upset. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Wait. I dont' see an issue. If Greater Automatica (the protectorate) is MOVING to Antya, and the land that was Greater Automatica is now Elwynnese...wouldn't the issue be solved, as the culture and protectorate of Greater Automatica are within the borders of Antya while the land remains in Elwynn?

[Ryan]

That's what I thought as well.... Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[Shyriath]

Me three, for what it's worth. Duke Ric, since the land remains under Elwynn regardless of the treaty, all that's really involved here from Elwynn's point of view is a change of name. Would it not avoid further useless argument to change the name of Iain's county to Mistikal... or, since he has the option, even a different name of his own choosing?

[RicLyon]

Look, I can understand this, and if the Kaiseress has made her decision, then so be it.But I am still annoyed, not particularly by the treaty, but by the fact that this was never discussed with me, Iain or any other Elwynnese. Why? First it was Lac Glacei. Not then did anybody bother discussing it with me or the Elwynnese population.And now Greater Automatica. Don't you think we had a right to have been consulted regarding this?

[david northworthy beckfor]

I thought there were 2 greater automaticas, and the one in this treaty is not the one in ellwynn, and see the void should not care what ellwynn does with its GA, and the peoples duchy of Ellyn should not care what ryan does with his?

[Sir Iain de Vembria]

The only Greater Automatica known to exist is the one shown on Bill's map of Shireroth, which happens to be the one that was decreed by the Kaiser to be in Elwynn. I doubt very much that Ryan would ever allow two Greater Automaticas to co-exist.The Elwynnese Greater Automatica is a county on the basis provided by this ruling by the Imperial Provost that that map is the offical map of the borders of Shireroth, and that on the map it is shown as a county.Because of the status of Kaiserial decrees, this has to supercede any prior agreements that might have given Greater Automatica a different status.However, if there was an earlier agreement between Shireroth and Greater Automatica giving the latter the status of a protectorate, it is possible that it included a provision that prevented any greater integration into Shireroth. If that was so, then it is arguable that the change of status from Greater Automatica from a protectorate to a county would have rendered the agreement null and void, and therefore Greater Automatica would currently be completely independent from Shireroth, and a new protectorate agreement would now either have to be negotiated with and decreed by the Kaiser, or else with the MiniEx and passed by the Landsraad.At the risk of stating the obvious, one thing is very clear though - the Treaty of MagicGARP is entirely worthless, as no Lord has the power to acquire part of another Duchy without the agreement of its Duke or a decree by the Kaiser, nor has he any power to negotiate a treaty with a foreign nation without the authority of either the MiniEx or the Kaiser.In all probability this matter will now have to be taken by Elwynn to the Imperial Judex for a definitive ruling. His Excellency the Chancellor of the Sovereign Order of Treesia

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Actually, Ric, when it comes to land, no one gets to be discussed with.

[RicLyon]

Fine.

[Ryan]

Um, so what's the status of this? Is MagiGARP kosher or not? It doesn't effect the land, it only effects the cities and culture, which were my creations anyway and the basis for the protectorate.The way I see it, Shireroth is making a gain here while I'm taking a loss.I thought people would be more happy with that fact. I have several ideas in mind I will try and broach with Ric via AIM before I propose them here. Hopefully a solution will be found. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

MagiGARP seems fine to me.

[Ryan]

Cool.Well I talked to Ric anyways and we agreed that since vasroixe has left Shireroth, Byzantia reverts back to Lesser Automatica. So since G. Automatica is being incorporated into New Jasonia, Iain could get Lesser Automatica. Thus he still gets and Automatica, Bill gets the Automatica he wants and everyone is happy.That sound workable to you? Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

That it does. I'll award land in a moment.

[RicLyon]

I must say, Kaiseress, you look reeeeaaally gooood!

[Ryan]

Indeed, very sexy. You had better watch out for Bill. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[david northworthy beckfor]

I'll protect our sovereign from bill!*carries off the kaiseress*

[AngelGuardian93]

Hey you! That's my job! I'm DEFUNCT now! *runs after dave* There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[RicLyon]

EEK!Kaiseress and Dave an item!

[AngelGuardian93]

No no, it's Dave carrying our kaiseress LIKE an item. Hehe. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.