Max.

[Erik Mortis]

I have locked all threads you have made in ML. You are cast out of House Mortis, if you were ever in it. You are denied control of the region, and shortly the ability to even post in it.

The second you took this to the MCS you became a traitor, and not of the fun playful variety.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

So you're denying a chance for a good RecWar to bring some activity to this sector because my posting on the MCS had hurt your feelings or something?

I refer you to my post in the MCS, which I feel makes my point pretty clear:

Dear G-d, this has just reached an entirely new level of pathetic behaviour.

All I was trying to do was introduce some activity and dynamism into a stagnant and less active Micran Sector and thought Shireroth would be the place to do it. I included plenty of scope for others to get involved, I put a lot of work into the Laqi Free Republic, and because some people would rather throw a tantrum than try and have an interesting and amusing RecWar which would not only bring new activity to the sector but would add another level of simulationism to Shireroth's fairly piecemeal and poorly-run Civil Wars.

All this tells me is that Erik is obviously in so deep to micronationalism that he views an attempt at seccession in his precious micronation as a personal slight to himself. Why does he think I tried to remain officious and professional about the manner in which the seccession was carried out? Why does he think I asked after making this claim that the territory be shown as disputed?

This isn't the last of it- Erik can ban me from House Mortis but I can sure as hell set up a rival Laqi government elsewhere.
I'll be back in an hour or so with a working Laqi forum, on which I will expect a mature Shirereithan response rather than a temper tantrum.

You know, when I regained my Shirereithan Citizenship it was partially to start this insurrection but it was mainly because I thought I'd actually try and have another stab at being a Shirereithan citizen. Now, I'm really not so sure.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Fine lets have a flame war instead.

Erik, you are a prize wanker.

Also. Threads unlocked. Play on you whinny bastards.

[Erik Mortis]

Khan.. gtf out of my house! You have no right to interfere.

But on that note. I was about to go unlock the threads and unban you from the county. Max, I'm sorry I overreacted. But the second you posted to the MCS trying to claim lands that belong to Shireroth you crossed a line for me. You stopped this from being a fun little civil war I could ignore and let happen, and turned it into a real threat to Shireroth. The second you tried to actually claim lands it stopped being a "for activity" thing, a laugh...or whatever, and became real. I haven't put 10 years into this nation to see you come back after months away just to tear it apart, for shits and giggles.
If you really want your cultural stuff and a real micronation, say we cast all your people out and claim new lands somewhere. But cut out this independence/secession nonsense. It's not what Shireroth needs right now.
But yes, I'm sorry I overreacted. But you did cross the line between what's good fun, and what's a real threat to the Nation.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Erik,

Perhaps I haven't made my exact motivation for claiming on the MCS particularly clear. As far as I see it, part of the MCS' duty to the Micran Sector is to portray the political status of nations within that sector on their map as best they can, hence their 'Rebel Uprisings' symbols and soforth. As Modan-Lach is no longer controlled by the government it legally belongs to according to the MCS, it is therefore fitting that it be portrayed as a rebel uprising or something similar. This is why the MCS have such symbols on their maps in the first place.

I'd show the Laqi Free Republic as disputed, of course, with part Shirereithan colours in it and rebel uprising symbols- it would by no means be showing the Laqi Republic as a fully independent, recognised state because that simply wouldn't be true. The same would have gone for Matbaa if someone tried to declare one of their provinces independent- I'd have accepted the portrayal of that province on the MCS map as outside central Matbaic control until it was reconquered.

And no, frankly I'm disappointed that you think I'm coming back to Shireroth 'to tear it apart'.
If I had underestimated exactly how weak-willed Shireroth's community had become, I'd have held back the declaration of independence, but now it's just fairly depressing. As I said in another thread here, if this ten year old nation can be torn apart by three independence declarations so easily, then it doesn't deserve to live. Treat this as the activity-generating, interesting event in the summer lull it's supposed to be and it'll be fun. Continue the Shirereithan tradition of over-analysing everything as the end of your nation and it won't be. It really is out of my hands.

Thankyou for apologising for your overreaction, because that was uncalled for.
But if I may say so, your ability to take everything personally so far has astounded me.

Maksym

[Malliki Tosha]

Max, if you had sticked around here instead of quitting 1.5 years ago, you would have known that we've had conflict upon conflict for the last six months. Another one is not something Shireroth needs and is partly why I left.

[Erik Mortis]

I'm gonna agree with Mike. We've had a lot of conflicts lately. It was the worst time for the worst, thus my reaction. I just want to know that no matter what, this isn't going to lead to any land actually being lost.

[Jonas]

I'm gonna agree with Mike. We've had a lot of conflicts lately. It was the worst time for the worst, thus my reaction. I just want to know that no matter what, this isn't going to lead to any land actually being lost.

Kildare is fully supporting your statement.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

*In a glorious, booming Kaiserial voice* AS DO I.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

If you want to fight a RecWar, you have to put *something* up for grabs in case you lose. If you lose, which is unlikely, you'll regain control of the Laqi Republic. Seeing as this began as an internal affair, seems fair to me.

Nonetheless, you can take Modan-Lach, but the Laqi Free Republic will live on... as a government-in-exile.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

So let me see if I'm getting this right: we win, we get Modan-Lach back again outright; you win, we get control of the land, you get to have a Laqi government-in-exile? And, I assume, the right to make regular brash declarations of Shirerithian tyranny?

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Niftiness,

If I may say so, that's a fairly meaningless deal. The 'right' to set up a Government-in-Exile is not yours to give nor take away- if I decided tomorrow to set up a website and forum for such a government for the Laqi Republic, you wouldn't be able to stop me. More obvious, I would have thought, would be that the very notion of a Government-in-Exile is one of conflicting legality- if the legitimacy of a Laqi Government-in-Exile was conferred on it by the same Kaiser who had exiled that government in the first place, then there'd be no need for it.

No; what I propose in the event of a Laqi victory is some arrangement by which Shireroth takes back Modan-Lach, but grants it more autonomy as a Laqi Region under my rule. I think this is fair, and I have expanded on it at greater length elsewhere in Shireroth.

Hadjimehmetov

[Harvey Steffke]

Honestly you're kind of lucky that he's even taking you seriously anymore. As soon as it became obvious that you weren't at all interested in a legitimate, Independence state here and are just fussing around with territories within the republic, you got a whole lot less interesting in light of the other events happening concurrently. I'm a bit disappointed personally that you aren't going farther with this, but I guess somethings are just jokes and some things have more depth.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Well in that case I can't bloody win, can I?

I'd like to keep on as a proper, independent republic but if I do that, there's no way to take this further and have the interesting RecWar I know some people are looking forward for. What should I do, Harvey?

[Harvey Steffke]

You shouldn't need to ask me what to do. And you shouldn't give a darn what the Kaiser says. If you were very serious about this independent state you'd have either setup your own board or asked for some non-Shirerithian to host you temporarily while you got organized. Instead, you're using it as a threat to keep discussing the matter here for some reason. "if I decided tomorrow to set up a website and forum for such a government for the Laqi Republic" indeed.

Come on, don't be so insulting. Here, some more, I guess.

All I was trying to do was introduce some activity and dynamism into a stagnant and less active Micran Sector and thought Shireroth would be the place to do it.

I'd show the Laqi Free Republic as disputed, of course, with part Shirereithan colours in it and rebel uprising symbols- it would by no means be showing the Laqi Republic as a fully independent, recognised state because that simply wouldn't be true.

Both statements show an intention of trying to stir the pot and do a recwar rather than start your own micronation.

You and your unnamed supporters seem to want a recwar, but you can't force a recwar upon Shireroth, who seems almost completely uninterested. So many people forget that the "rec" in recwar stands for recreational. They're games for fun. They're entered by two, willing parties for the purpose of having a good time. They don't decide political disputes or end feuds or settle scores.

[Erik Mortis]

For that we have real wars.. which can't be waged anymore...

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

You and your unnamed supporters seem to want a recwar, but you can't force a recwar upon Shireroth, who seems almost completely uninterested. So many people forget that the "rec" in recwar stands for recreational. They're games for fun. They're entered by two, willing parties for the purpose of having a good time. They don't decide political disputes or end feuds or settle scores.

Well, to be blunt it wasn't me who decided to take the 'Rec' out of 'RecWar' in that regard. I seriously had no idea that a seccession of a Shirereithan region would lead to so much rage- not irritation- actual, personal rage.
I thought that a RecWar was the priority here- and changed my wishes of what to do with Modan-Lach accordingly. Whether I win or lose, there'll still be a Laqi Government-in-Exile, but I want to see how the situation pans out first. I'm working on a website now, but am just dumbstruck at the reaction to all this... it's absoloutely bizarre...

[Harald of Froyalan]

For that we have real wars.. which can't be waged anymore...

Yes, you can. Simply settle one's disputes by means of airsoft battles like some MicroWiki nations do.

[Harvey Steffke]

I seriously had no idea that a seccession of a Shirereithan region would lead to so much rage- not irritation- actual, personal rage.

Regardless of if your ignorance of the situation counts as a defense or not (I tend to give everyone a freebie, but most people are a lot less forgiving) the fact that you didn't know then doesn't protect you from still acting the way you are now. If you are really bothered by the reaction, all you need do is drop the claim. The fact that you aren't shows that you really don't care that much, so please, try to move on from the point.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

So let me get this straight, Harvey- if I say that I don't want to continue my attempt at independence and will instead try and settle for something less, I get told this:

Honestly you're kind of lucky that he's even taking you seriously anymore. As soon as it became obvious that you weren't at all interested in a legitimate, Independence state here and are just fussing around with territories within the republic, you got a whole lot less interesting in light of the other events happening concurrently. I'm a bit disappointed personally that you aren't going farther with this, but I guess somethings are just jokes and some things have more depth.

If I try to continue independence, it's implied that I'm some real heartless bastard for not caring enough about the reaction I got:

If you are really bothered by the reaction, all you need do is drop the claim. The fact that you aren't shows that you really don't care that much, so please, try to move on from the point.

I'm really quite confused here as to what on earth people expect from me. As per the issue with the rage:
If people had been just irritated and expressed their irritation in a civil manner, I'd have listened to them. As soon as it became aparrent that some people here are so connected to Shireroth that a small slight on its honour by a Laqi Independence movement made them cry or ragequit, I just didn't bother trying to care. My point is that the fault for such a disproportionate reaction lies not with me, but with those who reacted in that manner.

It seems whatever I do in this scenario, someone's waiting around the corner looking forward to have a go at me for some reason. If I keep the Republic going, I'm 'not open to debate' and 'not caring about the reaction', yet if I don't, I'm 'not serious about Laqi seccession' or 'ruining a good RecWar scenario'.
Why the Elwynnese seccession didn't get the same treatment is frankly beyond me.

[Aster]

I'm really enjoying this. Micronationalism is a recreational activity - unfortunately, it appears that for many in Shireroth, it's become so, so much more.

[Jonas]

I'm really enjoying this. Micronationalism is a recreational activity - unfortunately, it appears that for many in Shireroth, it's become so, so much more.

Huh? What do you mean?

[Erik Mortis]

Is it unfortunate? Maybe only for those that like to destroy things for a laugh.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Umm... yyeah... Bit over-dramatic, I think, Erik- the independence declaration of the Laqi Republic wasn't exactly designed to destroy Shireroth, which is why the declaration clearly stated we wanted to live next to Shireroth as friendly neighbours as well as my own.
Oh, and then I asked for diplomatic discussion about the matter, to which I was told 'you have 24 hours to leave Modan-Lach'. I've now tried again to call for talks between dignitaries from our nations, and there doesn't seem to be much interest. So some of the failure to come to a mutually acceptably solution must reasonably be attributed to Shirereithan actions.
I refuse to be held responsible for the laughably disproportionate reaction of Shirereithan citizens during this affair and resent any implication that I should be.

The Litovsker Tagblatt seems to have summed the entire event up quite well, I think.