Antican Elections

[Delphi]

I'd hate to make anyone shake their heads at my first post in this new forum in my new capacity as Director of SHINE being one about the Republic of Antica, but I believe that we can come to some consensus that what happens over there, as within many nations could be important to us. Particularly of note right now is their elections for speaker, in which Foghorn and Olorix are competing for the spot. Steven, in a thread for debate over in the RoA, posed six questions for each of the candidates to answer with their policies towards. One of these categories is Shireroth (this is where it starts to concern us more directly).

Foghorn, a former Shirerothan (Shirerithian? We really need to have one of those officialized...) citizen, basically said that there was no Shireroth issue, and that there needs to be no way of "dealing" with us. Olorix, on the other hand, had the following response:

Shireroth isn't an issue itself, as Foghorn noted, but I believe that we need to seriously look at our relations with them. Shireroth publically embarrased us, and have continuously treated us poorly: first by not recognising us for an extended period, then extending a half-arsed treaty to us out of fear of insulting Delphi, then giving us a diktat of a single Antican province that was supposed to make us sit down, shut up, and never ask for our rightful land again. I do not advocate hostility toward Shireroth, but just we ought to treat others as they treat us, and additionally I believe we should focus on supporting micronational underdogs who are experiencing the same crap from the superpowers in our sector.

Short and sweet: he doesn't like us. From a more analytical perspective, it means to me that we might have something to deal with from them in the future, if he's given the power to do so. He's no idiot, though he's on his way with his increasing propensity towards Steven-ism. He wouldn't do anything publicly unless they had some upper hand that they managed to gain on us. But he doesn't like us because we're powerful, and he doesn't like us because Antica is a part of Shireroth, not to mention the land dispute. I'm planning to keep my own eye on them, though their intelligence offices have been rather dormant, to my knowledge.

In short, I'm trying to kick things off and not seem like I'm slacking off, and make sure that we're prepared for a term of Olorix as speaker of the Republic of Antica.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Well, lets see what the others have to say.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Did you hear today's KZFO? It seems that:

1) Steven's very much with Olo in anti-Shirerothness
2) Foghorn's very friendly to us
3) Steven and co. are trying to use Foghorn's friendship with us against him
4) Olo's favored as winner.

Now, what I gather from Olo's response is that he won't really be against us in any militant sense, just not liking us and not wanting much to do with us. He also seems to want to create some sort of neutral camp (like what Steven was saying regarding India on KZFO) and avoid the GC, which is kind of okay with me.

As long as he doesn't turn towards the GC, I feel like we've got a winning strategy in waiting until we can help them and make them like us, and then doing so.

[Delphi]

I haven't yet heard today's KZFO. I stopped listening after a point when there was more Delphi-bashing than there was actual content. I was very aware of Steven's view of us, but Steven will be out of speaker soon enough.

I'm curious who will fill their Office of Republican Intelligence next term. I wouldn't be surprised if Olorix was bold enough to appoint Steven, despite his blundering idiocy. I really don't think there's much we have to worry about, and perhaps we can just sit tight, but I'd say we just want to make sure we're one step ahead, like with the Treaty of Nafticon. If we know what they're going to do next, we can act dignified and sidestep whatever it is with grace.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Dodging is good.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Yeah. As long as it's not active spying that leaves *any* chance of being caught.

[Delphi]

Have I ever been...? *stops* Gotcha.

I'll step up my methods and procedures a bit, now that I've actually got something at stake. I let things get a bit lax while the Dinarchy was falling apart. No need to worry though.

[AngelGuardian93]

Wow, i'm so useless in this forum now...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Just so you know, I highly recommend against this. Also, if you do get caught, official position will probably by necessity be "Oh, look, there's that loose cannon Delphi doing horrible things the Shirerithian government would never let him do if we knew about it," so don't feel bad.

[Delphi]

What do you really think I'm going to do? If you'd like to know I'd be glad to tell you, but to be honest this doesn't involve any real form of risk assuming I'm careful.

[osmose1000]

Assuming makes an ass out of whoever created that damn rhyme. It'd be best if you told us what you were doing before you did it, just so we aren't paranoid.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Well, I was worried that you were going to create a papel and try to join; I'm sure you would use a proxy and all, but it would still be too easy to detect and to my knowledge that has never worked anywhere.

But if not...well...I for one don't want to know what you're doing. Plausible deniability and all.

[Delphi]

*nods* I figured that'd be the case, so I didn't just go ahead and say it.

[osmose1000]

Plausible deniability my ass. Is it really that hard for you to type, "The fuck?" when someone asks you about something secret?

[Delphi]

Scott likes to keep himself truthful. I don't quite understand it, but I won't fault him for it. We're the ones who are ethically deplorable with all our lying...

[AngelGuardian93]

Still useles, but LOVING this conversation.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

I've had a number of people ask how we acquired the Nafticon Declaration. I've told them all the same thing: "I got it from my intelligence sources. And where they get it from, I don't know. It's better that I don't, that way I can't tell you."

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Steve says that Olo's going to either appoint him Foreign Relations officer or Intel officer. I suppose that means if we don't hear about him being made Foreign Relations, he's intel.

[Delphi]

Mm, I gathered that might be the case. The other day when we were at Foghorn's house, the issue of appointments came up, and I subtly inquired about the intelligence officer, and he kind of stuttered, refusing to list himself. He probably thought it would be a big secret or something. I personally think that for our goals, at this time, Steven as either would be good. Speaking of which, Scott, I'd still like to briefly talk to you about what Foghorn and I discussed.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I got the following from new speaker Olorix by way of Steven today:

We have decided in Antica that for the most part, we have been concentrating on the external of Micras for too long, but must begin to nurture our own system. However, at the same time, we want to mantain the security of our nation. It is not beyond reason for me, because of circumstances I will not disclose to you, to believe that the security of my nation is not all too secure. And this isn't just my usual paranoia. Therefore, I request of SHINE and the rest of Shireroth, to make a verbal promise via yourself, to respect the security of Antica. What that entails is that Shireroth will be held accountable for any subversion, disruption, or outright attacks coming from citizens of your nation or from your nation itself (which I doubt highly). If something is occuring that concerns me, I will inform you and ask you to ask the responsible parties to cease and desist from this activty. And I beg of you to discourage among your citizenry any activity that might offend our nation or be disruptive in any way. Also, I am sure that you, if you knew that something was going on, woudl not permit it. And through these actions and any actions that can be extrapolated from this, I believe that Antica and Shireroth can form into an alliance like that of old times.

Anyway, it sounds like a good enough idea.

[Delphi]

Well, he's nervous. That's good. He fears something from us. That's good too. I think that's fair enough though.

So... does this mean I should keep anything (no matter what it is) that involves them 100% to myself? Since no one knows of my position here except the people in here (and one other person who Scott knows about), no one will come to me to speak for the Shirerithian government, so you guys wil be clueless enough to not to have to lie regarding any of their suspicions (I won't let you down in terms of not doing anything traceable). And myself, well I have no problem lying.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I think Steven is on to you.

In further conversation, he's telling me that he meant that message specifically for you because he has evidence you're up to something. I'm trying to figure out what that evidence and that something is, but he's being less enthusiastic about spilling all of his intelligence secrets than usual (Olo must be a good influence on him). The best I've been able to get out of him so far is this:

[Tell him we know he is] interacting with citizens of the republic in a manner that is meant to injure our hurt the republic in a way, i.e. to coerce republican citizens and subvert the government. But don't use names or shit. I imagine that he'll deduce what I'm talking about. and ask that he doesn't go back and yell at the person who he thinks is a leak or whatever. Tell him not to do that, because I'll know

I seriously suggest you just drop whatever plans you have there. They're not a threat, they're too likely to have discovered you, and the cost-benefit analysis just seems too high.

[Delphi]

Speaking to you 100% honestly, I've been doing one thing for a while, which has no relation to anything like that. It's passive and undetectable. I think I know exactly what he's referring to, and it's a farce which I got him to believe.

A while ago, I intentionally quoted Olorix directly from one of their secret fora, and when asked about it, I said "some of your citizens aren't as loyal as you think." When asked about it again the other day, I said the same thing (though this was a while ago to begin with).

Scott, I completely understand your paranoia that I'll get us caught doing something, and you can continue to express it as such and I'll explain anything that needs to. I suppose it's better safe than sorry. But I'll take this opportunity to assure you that there's no risk to us. He's fishing in the dark.

[Delphi]

Seems like Olo has decided to continue his haughty criticism openly:

Ah yes, the staunch defenders of recognising the rights of a nation to it's territory emerge only when it's nothing to do with the Republic. Doesn't this just bring back a sense of deja vu, with regard to the negotiations of that half arsed treaty we have with Shireroth.

(http://foghorn.myfxh.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=611)

Also, he's calling for a restart in intelligence in their Office of Republican Intelligence.

[Delphi]

Upon further investigation, I've procured the following private speech by Olorix from 21 January, 2006.

For those of you who don't read my longer 'speeches'/posts on the forums, I would really appreciate it if just this once you read what I am saying below, because I really don't want our nation falling apart because you do not understand my perspective on the issues!

As per Foghorn's request, I have created this thread here to debate the merits and demerits of taking a third way foreign policy that opposes both Shireroth and the Grand Commonwealth, and also some other potential concerns that have arisen over the past week or so.

My understanding of micronational foreign policy is built around watching bullies. Big or old micronations that treat other, often smaller nations like rubbish. I've been watching imperialism in micronationalism for two years. Indeed, I took part of defending and promoting the Dinarchy's sometimes imperialist foreign policy.

What's even more important here is that I have hated bullies my entire life. As a shorter-than-average guy in reality, I've had to deal with my fair deal of shit from people much larger than me. I've seen others endure far worse due to being unusual physical characteristics (small/short/unusual looking), and I'm sure many of you have experienced or seen such things happening in the school yard.

In my mind, Antica has been the little guy getting bashed around for far too bloody long! Especially the first people here will remember our total lack of recognition, and our few foreign treaties attest to our pariah status. I watched as other foreign ministers and foreign leaders I considered friends with suddenly start telling me that the Republic was going to have to wait a while for a treaty.

I'll be frank and specific. States like Gotzborg and Shireroth were too afraid of Delphi to offer us any treaties, and when Shireroth finally did, they didn't recognise our land . The Grand Commonwealth thought us quite a laugh, and eventually failed our treaty in their Assembly. Revolutionary Attera never even bother to give us the respect we gave them when they revolted (look at one of our first resolutions supporting them) and was too afraid of the Dinarchy to sign a treaty with us.

Shireroth is one of the micronational bigwigs right now, and I don't see anything wrong with making them realise that we are no longer going to take their bullying like we used to. The recent fracas with them has degenerated, with Shirerothian citizens and officials openly lying. People are accusing me of opening up old wounds; in my opinion these wounds were festering and needed to be opened again so that they could properly heal.

The irony is that only Shirerothians say this, and totally ignore the fact that their embarrassment of us over the land negotiations, their lack of recognition then rubbish treaty, and their paternal attitudes toward us are still very fresh in our collective consciousness.

Perhaps I have been too overzealous in my comments toward Shireroth, but I have never lied nor spoken any form of distorted truth about Shireroth, and my anger is very much real and not an attempt to stir emotions unnecessarily.

We need to gain respect through showing that we have courage, and not through subservience to a foreign power. This is why I think establishing a non-aligned movement in Micronationalism would make Antica a huge measure stronger, and additionally it would finally give micronationalists who are historically marginalised a chance to start seriously charting the course of our hobby.

These experiences made my real life politics be dictated by a principle: that I do not support governments and nations that preach inequality, unfairness and simple injustice when it is not deserved.

Let me make it clear that I am no slave to socialist, Marxist or any other theory: I just see an Antica that is focused around bringing out the best in everyone, where the community is placed above the individual, and where we enjoy our work to improve and expand our nation.

I don't want foreign policy destroying our nation, but foreign policy in micronationalism simply is hugely important for us to achieve our own identity and to guide what happens inside our state.

In response the next day, the following came a bit down the line:

We can't really expect all the monarchies of the world to welcome us with open arms. We are the rare real-deal: we overthrew our despot and established a new form of government. People are uneasy about that type of thing.
I don't particularly like Shireroth or Babkha, and I think we should just try and play them off against each other. I agree with a policy of nonalinement. Our chief concern should simply be preventing a renewal of friendship between Shireroth-Babkha, which could form something like the "Holy Alliance" in Europe after the French Revolution to try to crush us entirely. So long as they're divided, we can grow.

Gotta go with Johanns on this one.

And I do agree that it serves in our interest to see those two powers fighting. Then again, if they're allied, I think it also serves in our interest too (as a non-aligned group would effectively be the only alternative power arrangement apart from a Shireroth-Babkhan Axis).

Just keeping the updates acomin'...

[Delphi]

Seems the Republicans have recruited some help in their whole "down with the old powers and up with the smaller ones with a nicer name to it". The following is up in the MNN:

Declaration of Non-Alignment

What is the purpose of micronationalism? Surely, this question can be debated over and over by the best of our thinkers and the nature of the question changes on how you perceive our wonderful and peculiar endeavor. Micronations can either be formed as ultimate solutions to social problems, or as sometimes sophisticated, sometimes fun simulations where we can experiment and express ourselves. We will be more concerned with the latter henceforth.

While some may consider a large, active population to be the pinnacle of a micronation, that is not always the case. True, these old bastions of micronational tradition are invaluable to our community and do provide innovative ideas that benefit us all. Their size and resources allow them to do this easily. However, the next generation of micronations, those classified as the small or medium nations, contains the pure essence of micronationalism: aspiration and independence.

Unfortunately, the next generation of micronations is largely isolated from each other, but instead, chooses to associate with the old micronational bastions. Most likely, and not to fault them, these nations are merely seeking a strong dependable ally. Or, perhaps the next generation nations are associating with the bastion nations to increase their own prestige. Either reason, however benign or selfish, creates a polarizing effect in our community as the next generation nations are inevitably caught up in the rivalries of the older nations.

If one would take an analytical look at the old traditional micronations, you may see that due to their endurance through the ages, their conquests, annexations, merges, and constant cultural achievements, these illustrious nations may take on an arrogant disposition towards the newer nations, all the while expecting the ultimate respect that they feel their accomplishments award them.

There is a better way. Antica, Riponia, and Natopia feel that all micronations, new or old, accomplished belligerent or peaceful neutral, fantasy or themed, serious or silly, all deserve respect if they have the very essence of true micronations, the desire to set oneself apart, to grow and experiment, to expand one´s horizons to vastly different cultures and ways of thinking.

The people of Antica, Riponia, and Natopia wish to announce to the community our intention to be non-aligned and welcome other nations to join our movement. While we respect the accomplishments of the older nations, we feel it necsary to the continuation of the community that there be an end to the dangerous polarization. The next generation of micronations is a varied and wonderful group. We do not need to cling to one of the traditional nations, thus bringing ourselves into their rivalries that perhaps go back farther than our nations´ histories. We are better than that. We contain the pure essence of micronationalism. We are candles at the beginning of our wicks, sure to brighten for many years to come. We are the next generation. We are able to take a more prominent role in the community. We have the right to lead this community as well.

His Sovereign Majesty, Nathan
Sovereign Natopian Emperor

[osmose1000]

What are the main points of our fued with the GC besides them being a world power against us? If they're small enough, I'd recommend a publicity stunt involving a revival of the Mango-Camel Pact or something similar in purpose.

[Delphi]

I'm a master at getting information, but you guys are just awesome at making use of it...

I wonder if this whole nonaligned thing has come to their ears yet, and if so, what they think about it.

[Shyriath]

What are the main points of our fued with the GC besides them being a world power against us? If they're small enough, I'd recommend a publicity stunt involving a revival of the Mango-Camel Pact or something similar in purpose.

Ooooh, I'd like to see the looks of astonishment, or at least suspicion, that would be on others' faces if that were to occur. Of course, the GC has no particular reason to trust us with a new alliance unless they

1.) already know about this new scheme (after all, if we had to tell them, would they believe us?), and

2.) consider it enough of a threat that they'd want to counterbalance it by casting their lot with us.

As for what separates us from them in real terms... I'm not much of an expert there. If the point of the GC was to challenge Shirerithian dominance, that may set them against the idea of too close a cooperation. I'd imagine we also have some actual issues we'd have problems with. After all, they've bullied around other nations in a manner that we (despite Olorix's claims) haven't. Do we want to get tied up in that? And some of us, remembering Treesia as it once was, have a problem with its current state... even if there's been no official statement on the matter. Would a new pact force us to ignore that?

And we also have to consider what kind of image we'd get from getting too close to the GC, even if they behaved themselves. We would take the risk of looking exactly like the power-hungry imperialists they'd love to paint us as. "Look at them, trying to dominate us by concentrating power in their hands!"

I think another tack we might want to consider is to surprise the small-nation folks by making public statements congratulating them if they decide to go through with this... applaud their courage in advancing micronationalism or something good-sounding like that. But of course, that carries the risk of making us look weak, too.

[AngelGuardian93]

I will see this nation BURN before we ally with the GC!



That would only prove their points, and that's not what we want. How do we react to this? We applaude their efforts, and after that, ignore it. Not because their too isignificant, but because if we did anything at all it would be misinterpreted. They're waiting for us to make a mistake so they can slag us and bring attention to their nations.