Should I take the throne, and I'm mad at Scott.

[Erik Mortis]

Just being efficient with a post.

1. I know the permission I gave as Arbiter to Corey was on shaky ground. But we need to have the ability for the Steward to edit past decrees. I honestly believe it's at least legal on a technicality, but an extreme bending of the charter, one I do personally find...troubling. Though I've always made it clear I make rulings based partly on the spirit of things, and practicality.

2. Which leads me to, being mad at Scott for asking for my removal as arbiter. Without even trying to talk to me. I thought we were friends, and that you would find other means to deal with things then start attacking me in the Landsraad!

3. Should I claim the throne as Kaiser, keep Corey as Steward, and then abdicate when Jacobus comes back. Clean up things, amend the Charter. and a few other things?

[Erik Mortis]

In case anyone cares, I retracted my support for the Steward messing with old Kaiser's decrees. My reasons are odd ones, and kinda remind me why I've meant to step down as Arbiter.

But I do need to be replaced as Arbiter with Mike. I asked Corey to do this the other day, but he's not gotten to it yet. (thanks a lot Scott for making it look bad on me now when it's done!) I have to many roles in this nation, many of them unofficial. And they are now conflicting with me being Arbiter, since those roles are starting to activate.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Didn't think you'd change your mind because you'd already made a ruling. You never said anything like "This is just provisional".

Didn't think asking for your removal mattered much, because worst case scenario was you'd see the vote was going against you and change your mind. I would've been pretty upset (and surprised) if it had actually resulted in your removal. And I was right - as soon as you saw it, you changed your mind and ruled correctly, now I don't want you gone anymore, and the motion is removed.

Already said on the thread, along with a lot of other people, that you should change your mind. You didn't. Figured that was that. Didn't see why I should go through the trouble of staying up really late until it was some normal hour in California when you might be expected to be online, and thought I would sound sort of like a jerk anyway: "change your ruling, or I'll try to dismiss you".

Didn't think this had anything to do with friendship or personal attacks, any more than your demanding (and then revoking your demand for) the resignation of the Steward a while back when he broke the law did.

[Erik Mortis]

I honestly wanted him removed.

You could have sent me a PM....


But on to the matter I meant to talk about. Should I claim the throne for a time?

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I coulda. I guess when you make a decision, repeat it, say no when people ask you to change it, and reaffirm that you thought it was justified, it doesn't occur to me that you didn't really mean the decision and if I PMed you saying exactly what I said on the forum, you'd change it. In the future I'll be more careful, though.

I think Corey's being a good Steward now and it's his choice if he wants to give the throne up to you. Are these changes you want to make not ones you could just recommend to him?

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

I think it requires editing the Charter in order to give the Steward the powers to repeal or edit past Kaisers' decrees when there is no Kaiser, so therefore, I have no power to make the necessary amendments with the Charter still in effect.

HOWEVER, I see nothing in the Charter saying I'm not allowed to suspend the Charter, edit it, and then reinstate it. Although, that would work against me, and I'd probably be remembered as the guy who exploited all the loopholes.

I'm unsure about giving Erik the throne before Jacobus gets back. It makes a lot of sense, but it circumvents Ayreon's will, and again, I'm already being known for doing some fairly shady things.

[Erik Mortis]

I coulda. I guess when you make a decision, repeat it, say no when people ask you to change it, and reaffirm that you thought it was justified, it doesn't occur to me that you didn't really mean the decision and if I PMed you saying exactly what I said on the forum, you'd change it. In the future I'll be more careful, though.

I NEVER RESPONDED! I MADE NO POSTS AFTER MY FIRST!.. so I don't know where you get all this inferred stubbornness.

[Erik Mortis]

As Steward you cannot touch the charter. And despite my first inclination to allow it, you cannot touch past decrees.

It's not a matter of whether he is doing a good job or not, he is. It's a matter of power. We need the power of a Kaiser right now. Steward isn't enough. I would step down for Jacobus when he came around. But we really need a Kaiser sooner then October 31st. Which is one estimate I've heard. We can't go a month and a half with no Kaiser, when we obviously need the power of a Kaiser. Further, unlike the past, we have the ability to have a Kaiser, we have the people to do the job.

Jacobus would still be Kaiser, Ayreons Will would still be upheld. We'd just have one in the interim, while we waited for him to be ready. Corey would remain as Steward under Raynor XII.

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

I just can't win here, can I...This is very frustrating for me...

[Ari Rahikkala]

It's not a matter of whether he is doing a good job or not, he is. It's a matter of power. We need the power of a Kaiser right now. Steward isn't enough. I would step down for Jacobus when he came around. But we really need a Kaiser sooner then October 31st. Which is one estimate I've heard. We can't go a month and a half with no Kaiser, when we obviously need the power of a Kaiser. Further, unlike the past, we have the ability to have a Kaiser, we have the people to do the job.

Actually, it's only about a week or so now. I don't think there's anything so important going on that we can't wait for a week...

Besides, I want him to be Loki the long-awaited, the one who came and fixed things up the moment he "reached majority" (even if the relevant decrees might have been prepared in advance by Corey et al)

[Erik Mortis]

Ah.. well.. that works. I had heard the end of October.

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

As Steward you cannot touch the charter.

Actually, after looking at the Charter, I beg to differ. I have all the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial powers of the Kaiser. The only restriction is that I cannot touch other decrees.

[Erik Mortis]

Last time I tried to agree to something like that as Arbiter, I almost got fired... That being said, I also changed my view and have reverted to a more traditional view of the Steward. You cannot, as the Charter was created by Kaisers, with decrees. Further, it is ABOVE decrees. If you cannot touch decrees, you sure as hell cannot touch the charter.

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

Last time I tried to agree to something like that as Arbiter, I almost got fired...

You realize that the Landsraad could have voted for your removal and I could have just vetoed them, right?

[Erik Mortis]

hmmmm. *adds to his list of loopholes to fix*

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

[Erik Mortis]

The Kaiser is meant to ALWAYS be supreme, and the Charter above him. If the Kaiser is support to be restricted in touching the Charter, why should a Steward be allowed to touch it?

The Steward is the emergency back up. He can do most of the things a Kaiser can, with a few exception which are partly there to make sure we always NEED a Kaiser, thus we won't go long without one.

Be proud that you get to be Ruling Steward, it's rare. And you are doing a fine job with it.

btw. Make Mike Arbiter and me Assistant if you could please. I have other roles to play now, and he's ready.

[Kaiser Loki II]

Does Mike want to be Arbiter?

And if the current Arbiter would send me a list of loopholes, we can fix them, or at least address them.

Thanks!

[Ari Rahikkala]

Actually, Corey already handled the transfer of arbitership... but I suspect Erik still does have his grievances with the Charter

[Kaiser Loki II]

Good. Then if the Assistant Arbiter, etc................

[Erik Mortis]

I'll hold on to them for now...

[Kaiser Loki II]

OK, just let me know.

BTW, I can't get in here as III. Thanks in advance!

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

*goes to fix*

EDIT: Fixed.

[Kaiser Loki III]

Wow! Efficiency!

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

I even fixed the SEP too.