Unified Currency Attempt 2

For discussion of the Small Commonwealth Unified Currency Treaty

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Andreas the Wise
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Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Since Lord General Nargoth is on LOA, I've been given his full powers in his absence, which means I have full negotiating power in this matter for Gralus. As Minister for Greed in Nelaga I also have the necessary negotiating power from that end. So, now Gralus has almost finished working out the economy, I've put in the necessary Landsraad legislation and the Kaiseress has given me a tentative o-kay, now seems to the perfect time to propose this.
Small Commonwealth Unified Currency Treaty

1. Any nation who has signed the General Membership Treaty may sign this Small Commonwealth Unified Currency Treaty, provided they gain approval from existing signatories.

2. An applicant to this treaty shall be considered by existing signatories. If, within a week, no existing signatory objects, the new nation shall be able to sign this treaty and issued starting currency as explained below.

3. All signatories to this treaty have a unified currency, and share a unified bank. Any participant in the economy of a signatory nation may make economic transactions with participants of any other signatory nations without restrictions, fees or tariffs.

4. Each signatory nations reserves the right to refer to the currency by whatever name they want. This does not make their currency different from the unified currency, and all the names are assumed to have a 1:1 exchange ratio.

5. Participants within this unified currency shall register their accounts in a particular signatory nation, or region thereof. By registering with that nation, participants' accounts are subject to any economic regulation or taxation of that nation, but not of any other nation.

6. The initial-initial distribution shall be as follows: Shireroth shall retain all its current currency. Gralus shall retain all its current currency.

7. After the initial-initial distribution, no currency can be created or destroyed by the signatory nations. However, each new signatory nation is entitled to create currency for an initial distribution among citizens of that country, under the following conditions:
a. They shall count how many citizens they have who do not currently hold accounts via any existing signatory nation.
b. They shall be entitled to 10 000 units of currency per citizen counted in this manner, to be distributed as they see fit.

8. There shall be an administrator of the bank, with the power to change the region of accounts as required; to create currency for new signatory nations; and to enforce taxation.

9. This administrator shall be elected by the signatory nations. At any time the administrator may be removed by a 2/3 vote of no confidence in the administrator, at which time a new administrator shall be elected by the signatory nations.

10. Should a signatory nation withdraw from this treaty, due to death or otherwise, all currency held in accounts registered in that nation shall be removed.
I think that covers everything. I'll run you through the thinking behind it:
Primarily, this is to unite the currency of Shireroth, Gralus and Nelaga. But I've left it open as a Small Commonwealth treaty in case others want to join. The more the merrier, and the more demand for goods. Unified Currency = we all use the same currency in the same bank. No nasty exchange rates, no having to change money between banks - just a unified currency, and thus, a unified economy.
New nations have to be approved by past nations, but instead of requiring a percentage of votes, each existing nation effectively has a veto, which they can use or ignore. Stops inappropriate people joining, but doesn't let it be held up by not every nation being active enough to notice.
There are no tariffs or restrictions or other costs for citizens to transact between nations. It makes things so much easier if we do this, and frankly, if we all want our overall economy to succeed, having tariffs or restrictions is just stupid. Technically a nation could offer to subsidise purchases by its citizens if it really wanted, but that seems stupid. Individual shop keepers can of course charge less to locals, if they want.
We can all call the currency our own name (to avoid disputes on what to call it), but its all the same currency, really.
People have to register their account in a particular country, so if they're dual cits (like me) they have to choose which country to register in. Since Gralus is going for no taxes, Nelaga will have no taxes, and I'd prefer Shireroth to have no taxes, that makes everything easy. But if in the future people wanted to do taxes, or needed emergency taxes for liquidity or the like, you can only tax accounts registered in your country. That's a simple solution of the problem of dual cits being overly taxed. Yes, if only one nation taxes dual cits will register their accounts in other nations, but I consider that a far lesser evil than trying to arrange a unified tax system or anything like that. (And a nation can always refuse to pay out government money to those who don't pay taxes to them, if they like).
Shireroth will have its 100 000 erb as it already does. We have (I counted) about a dozen citizens active in the economy at the moment. Drop me and that's almost 10. Gralus already has agreed how it'll distribute it's currency (200 000) among its citizens. It has almost 20 who will be active there. So that means that adding new nations in at 10000/new citizen should be about fair. I emphasise new because there's no point paying dual cits again, especially if they're not being taxed twice. So, Gralus and Shireroth come in as is, and Nelaga will join at the start, but have their currency calculated under section 7 (ie Bill and Harvey aren't in the Shirithian or Gralan economies, so Nelaga will get 20 000, and probably retain a lot of that for government capital). You may well ask, given my prior vocal objections to adding more currency in, why I allow this addition of currency? It's because each new nation that joins brings new citizens, and so its fair to add in new currency for a significant increase in population. It also makes it easier than trying to take money off existing accounts to pay them. Note that if a nation goes under, all their currency is removed, so it stays relatively fair.
Finally, I included bank admin in the treaty. I assume I'll remain admin (can't forsee any major objections to that).

So, any comments, concerns or suggested changes? I wrote this up fairly quickly and probably some of it could be worded better, but I think all the important meaning is there.
Last edited by Andreas the Wise on Wed May 20, 2009 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

Hrm, Kaiseress, my dear Andreas. But I do agree that this is a most interesting proposal. I have a question though. If we grow with a number of citizens, would the amount of Erb still be the same or would it be increased?

Thank you for your marvellous work. :kaiser
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Ah, my apologies your Kaiseress :fish . It's been too long (read: forever) since I have served under a Kaiseress.

In answer to your question - no. Once the initial distribution has been given, the nation does not get extra currency for an increase in population - because, as I'm sure you'll be aware, citizens come and go on a fairly regular basis, and it would be impractical to add currency each time they do (and even more impractical to remove it, because they'd probably transfer it to their friends). In fact, for the same reason that people don't get 2000 + each to start with, even though people did at one point (when we inflated the economy).

But if it helps, with a unified currency the amount of currency held by each nation is not set. If lots of Gralans spend money on Shirithian goods, for example, Shireroth's share of currency would go up over time (I hope to able to work country summaries into the bank like we have Duchal summaries currently, so we can track that for fun). Thus if a nation does get a lasting increase in population relative to the others, over time those citizens should be earning more and more money flow through to them.
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And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

Of course. Thank you for the clarification and please carry on.
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

I like this... Kaiseress, I suggest, as rep for Shireroth, that you decree this treaty, or put it before the Landsraad for vote.


As for the bank. The most recent update to it will make implementing this not to hard. It will just need to be put in place, it's on the server in a secondary test folder, and the database will need some minor adjustments.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

Thank you for that recommendation. I will put it before the Landsraad immediately.
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Jonas »

I have proposed it in Nelaga. I wait for reactions.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Since the Kaiseress has opted to start with this software and change to ripple later if we still want to, Erik, is the bank ready for me to add a number of Gralan accounts?
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

It'll be shortly. Though I'm not sure I'll have the Gralan summary up today. When Ari changed the page he made it harder for me to modify what he did. He made his own function for doing subdivisions.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

After consultation with others, I'd like to change the number in the treaty from 10 000 per citizen to 7500 per citizen. Since its only Gralus and Shireroth that have signed it yet, Erik, I just need your approval ... (MiniTrade approves the change, obviously :angel )
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And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

I think as rep this is within my right to approve, without the Landsraad.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

I give you a :thumbsup . That should do it. :p
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

I updated the treaty in the repository.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Excellent! I'll update our copy and get Nelaga to sign ...
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However, this account still manages:
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And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

I am interested in Natopia joining the unified currency. What steps must be taken?
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

Have your nation sign the Unified Currency Treaty. Once signed your nation will be added to the bank within 24hours or so....

OH.. and tell us what(if any) subdivision you want to have added to the bank for your nation.

You can also give me that info before you sign and as I double as the bank developer I can add it.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

ratified

http://natopianation.proboards.com/inde ... thread=404


We dont require any subdivisions.
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

if you could update this thread with a copy for record reasons: http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=216&t=10114

I'll take care of the rest.


[edit]Natopia added to the bank. You may proceed.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Nathan of Natopia wrote:ratified

http://natopianation.proboards.com/inde ... thread=404


We dont require any subdivisions.
I was actually planning to invite you. Nathan, you and William have accounts already (clearly), so is Konrad your only other active citizen to claim the extra money? If you either set up a Natopian Gov account, or he sets up an account, I'll give you the extra funds.

Also, if you and William want your accounts changed to Natopia instead of Shireroth, I can do that easily for you too :thumbsup
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Nelaga has also ratified it, as per here.

Our economy grows :evil
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Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

Both are up and running. (I had some issues with Natopia and Nelaga for a moment, but it's fixed now)

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Excellent!

On that note, Erik, the Shireroth summary now shows just Shireroth, and everyone within it. The summary for Gralus and Nelaga only shows the subdivisions, not the people. Can you get it to show the people like the Shireroth one?
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

Andreas the Wise wrote:
Nathan of Natopia wrote:ratified

http://natopianation.proboards.com/inde ... thread=404


We dont require any subdivisions.
I was actually planning to invite you. Nathan, you and William have accounts already (clearly), so is Konrad your only other active citizen to claim the extra money? If you either set up a Natopian Gov account, or he sets up an account, I'll give you the extra funds.

Also, if you and William want your accounts changed to Natopia instead of Shireroth, I can do that easily for you too :thumbsup
I can't speak for William but I would like mine changed to Natopia. I will have Konrad make an account. I think thats all, Tom may but he is not as active anymore.
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

As I don't know if those nations want all their citizens information on public display in that manner, I will not.

Personally, I do not approve of us doing that. I believe we should have more privacy then that from others. (but not from the government...)

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Well, can you change the Gralan one then? Gralans at least are used to looking at how much money eachother has, its never been hidden in any of the incarnations of our economies.

@Nathan - done for you.
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However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

If I can easily adapt Ari's code to that function, I will. Not a priority though.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

Konrad has made an account and I made a government account. I think thats all for now.
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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Ok Nathan, I'll pay that out. I've paid it to the Natopia account - however much you want to pass on to Konrad, you can.

On that note, sincere apologies for completely flaunting my own protocol. According to the treaty, I'm meant to wait a week before giving new member nations money, to give current members time to object. However, Nelaga was always going to sign (it was just delayed with me and Ari discussing a change to the numbers, and then having to wait five days to pass), and I was intending to invite Natopia so Gralus and Nelaga have no objections to that.

So from now on we'll have that week waiting period to object in before anyone else gets money.

On that note, we also need to officially elect me as admin of the bank, instead of just me doing it. Once we've done that, then we don't need to worry about elections unless you decide you want to remove me ...
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Erik Mortis »

I got no objection as Shireroth rep. Nor as you as admin.

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Re: Unified Currency Attempt 2

Post by Nathan of Natopia »

Natopia votes for Andreas as bank admin.
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Natopian Representative to the Small Commonwealth,
Member of the Roth Zera of Elwynnese Realm

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