Unified Currency treaty discussion.

For discussion of the Small Commonwealth Unified Currency Treaty

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Austi_Scot
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

Here is a proposal, it´s been done before -

Each nation have it´s own economy and currency.

Where there are similar things in each economy have those nations agree that something purchased in one nation can be used in the other. A transfer of goods to be allowed.

Let people from member nations be allowed to be part of the economy in each of the member nations according to the laws of the nation, people can buy/sell and transfer good to other member nations.

Let there be an international bank that will sell and buy the currencies of the member nations.

I am willing to run an international bank strictly for the sale and purchase of currencies. I will charge a very small fee per transaction. My formula wouldn´t be complicated but would be secret. I would use the google docs site, so no one has to create a new bank or combine banks. I would make the exchange rate available according to my formula so people would know.

Member nations would have to agree to inform me if the amount of their currency changes overall. I would gather everything else I need for the formula.

People could contact me when they want to purchase or sell a given currency - make the exchange and use the currency as they please.

Now of course this would mean an individual wanting to buy/sell in a nation where he isn´t a member would have to open a bank ternational bank would open an account in each member nation, and pay the person directly and be paid directly by the person. One other thing, each of the member nations would have to start the Internationl Bank with seed money, by putting it in the account of the International Bank located in their own country.
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Andreas the Wise
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Andreas the Wise »

The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
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And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

Andreas,

Let me say several things.
First, I like it - with some constructive suggestions directed for this conversation here.

In an exchange rate there are always two nations. A person could use your simple or advanced form to make calculations, but it seems they would have to gather all the up-to-date information from both nations.

This alone means there is no on objective possibility as a person might miss a state, get a stat wrong, or misrepresent a stat. At least with one banker keeping the info up to date or doing the necessary research the stats would be more "dependable" if it could be understood that way. Thus the penalty for miscalculations would be at the doorstep of the one "international banker".

(You should have more time to do this now that you´re not going to be Duke anymore.)

Anyways I really think the international banker should have a person in each member nation who updates the stats for that nation on a regular basis ... weekly, bi-weekly ... whenever. However I also think there should be a charge for the exchange of money, small - but about 3 of the coin of each nation, 6 in all. Pay 2 to each person doing the stats on each end and the banker keeps 2.

How will the exchange of currency being accomplished? I didn´t see it on the MITO trading sheet you have in Google Docs. It´s probably there but I couldn´t see how to use it.

Could the trade factor in the formula be made to include things in addition to MITO resources? For example, the rec-war items, the magic items, the programs that are being talked about, the services that might be offered?

Can the instutitions factor in the formula be made to include additional institutions? Such as an active diplomatic corp, guild/professions (whatever the particular nation might call them), an active (rec-war) military, cultural activities?

Is there room for competition in the inrena?

Oh, BTW, shouldn´t you add that Novatainia company to the "International Corporations" list?

Also, my plan brings the economics into the realm of individuals in each nation, is MITO prepared to that?
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Such a lot of questions.

My first and major answer is ... the reality is that at the present time, very, very few nations have an active economy. And all the systems are quite different. So generally people don't want to buy things from other nations, or don't know that such things exist. But on the off chance they did, MICEO is meant to provide a way to work out comparative exchange rates.

That being said - with info gathering, yes, someone does have to get the info. Most people aren't bothering to update and and that doesn't really matter - at least there is "a" exchange rate, even if its not perfect. Because my equations aren't perfect. They're just objective. But you only have to know that there's info for your country, and let the other country have their info. There's no need for it to be regular or the job be for the individual looking to exchange.

How is the exchange accomplishe the individual gives their government the money, the government gives the other nation the trade credit amount, the other nation takes the trade credits and gives the appropriate person the requisite amount of their currency. This assumes that governments have a reserve (which, generally, they do). So far its only been used once, which was for an Ocian to pay to advertise some companies in erbs (and he never gave me the company details, but I happily kept the trade credits and erbs).

A much simpler way is for government-to-government transactions, where they just exchange trade credits. But there aren't *any* international transactions happening at the moment, really.

Trade factor - I wouldn't see the point. It's just saying "how well do you do in trade" - which it achieves fine.
Institution Factor - potentially. Those aren't financial institutions as such, just more ways to spend money. I put the Institution factor in because the old ICEO [which, remember, had everyone on the same basic economic system] had an individual factor for banking, and for stock exchange etc.

Room for competition - at the moment there's not even room for a monopoly, so no. :p But yes, in a technical sense, there's nothing to stop someone else making up their own formulas and arrangements and getting people to trade trade credits, or even to bypass trade credits entirely.

VBNC - when I get around to it. I wanted to get the pic of the Very Big Corporation of America from Monty Python, and couldn't find it easily on the net, so I have to kinda play through the Meaning of Life to find it again ... which might take a while.

MITO isn't for individuals. MITO is for nations, and works on the (generally correct) principle that there might be *one* person in the nation interested in trade, but there are unlikely to be more than one, and certainly not enough to do a whole economy by trade. MICEO is designed for individuals through their governments, but isn't used ... because there's no real reason to. If people had comparable economic systems, it really would be easier for them to have the same currency and avoid exchanging it.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

ok, thanks for those answers.

I still like your system, but I like my idea best.

Nations allow currencies, goods and services in member nations to the treaty to be used in the their nation, and people from the member nations to run businesses in their nation (according to the laws where the business is run); keep their own currency and type of economy and let people trade goods, services, and currencies as they will.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Tell you what - if you can convince some nationbesides Novatainia and Shireroth that this is a useful system, and they agree to use it, we'll go with it and I'll even put it on the MITO site.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

First things first, get a treaty drawn up and signed by at least 2 nations.
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Kaiser Agni I
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Kaiser Agni I »

I think you forget. This treaty here is just a unified Currency only! If you want all those things make a treaty to build on this one. That's how things work remember, in this commonwealth.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

Here is my suggestion.
I'm willing to open and operate an International Banking System.
Pros:
1) No new bank needed (unless an individual nation doesn't have one) - No new international bank needed.
2) Each nation keeps it's own currecny, no new currency needed.
3) A nations currency stays within it's own boarders.
4) Each nation keeps and develops the kind of economy they want.
5) Each nation regulates the bank and economic activities according to their laws and desires.
6) Each nation taxes according to their own laws.

Small Commonwealth Cooperative Economic Treaty

1. All signatory nations to this treaty have signed the General Membership Treaty.

2. This treaty establishes economic cooperation between member nations who have signed this treaty.

3. This treaty allows for the establishment of an international banking system to regulate and facilitate the use and dispersion of the existing currency of each nation.

4. Citizens from signatory nations shall be permitted to have a bank account in other signatory nations according to the laws and regulations where the bank account is established and have the freedom to purchase and sell goods and services and operate business according to the law and regulations of the nation in which the bank account exist.

5. Goods and services purchased in one signatory nation may be transferred and used in another signatory nation.

6. An International Bank shall operate by establishing and maintaining a bank account from which they will receive and make payments in the national currency in each signatory nation under the laws and regulations of the nation where established.

7. There shall be no flow of currencies between member nations, the International Bank shall accept payment for exchange in their account within one nation and make payment from their account in the other nation. The International Bank shall be permitted to make purchases of goods and/or services for their customers in each signatory nation.

8. Exchange rates shall be determined by agreement between the International Banker and the individual customer of the International Bank and may change as conditions change in signatory nations.

9. Additional member nations of the Small Commonwealth may join this treaty.

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Kaiser Agni I »

Exchange rates... ugh.

I'm trying to a single currency system. That is the point of a unified currency.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

I know and understand that is what you're attempting to do and this won't do that. But it could be seen a step in that direction.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Kaiser Agni I »

I suppose. but I would still like to just create a single bank, single currency treaty. Let all the tax stuff go into another treaty to extend this one.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

well, I hope to find out what other nations think. If there aren't two nations willing to sign either my treaty or your's yet to be introduced treaty - then oh well.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Kaiser Agni I »

Fair enough.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Harvey Steffke »

On behalf of Nelaga, who has no economy at all, and on behalf of myself, who's plan to wait for this whole current economy buzz to go away is becoming a depressingly long-term goal, I do not see us being very interested in this treaty.

If nothing else it feels like a breach of sovereignty to have our entire economy being run by a foreign power with foreign laws and a foreign staff.

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

If nothing elses like a breach of sovereignty to have our entire economy being run by a foreign power with foreign laws and a foreign staff.
In the treaty I offered the economy of a signatory nation is not run by a foreign power. The treaty I wrote specifically says each nation runs their economy according to their laws and regulations. It even brings the International Bank Branch to operate under the host nations laws and regulations.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Kaiser Agni I »

I myself would prefer an international bank (single), run by an international staff with international rules. ie. Not Shireroth running the show.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Austi_Scot »

People are welcome to change the treaty I wrote to fit what they like and offer it up.
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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Andreas the Wise »

And this comes up a third time ...

Gralus is thoroughly disputing their economy, but because I've given up the no tax people are probably going to win. That means the economy we'll probably end up with is one basically free - no taxes (though of course no bounties either) so no government sector; no restrictions on starting a business (not even registration). Just a limit on what's in circulation for the country. And it has a physical presence in GROWL (our new version of CITRA) so can be stolen, but currency held by non-GROWL participating nations would just not be steal-able.

The advantage of this is it means its a very easy currency to incorporate other nations into. If Nelaga (as is proposed) uses the same currency, we could just add 50 000 to circulation and distribute it initially to Nelagan citizens. Nelagans can then use that currency to buy goods and services in the larger Gralan market with no difficulty, and vice versa.
If, for example, Natopia decided they wanted to have a currency without the bother of a whole economic structure, they could also join. They have less citizens, so there might be 15 000 added to circulation. Then they also can join.

This would mean that if the economy goes the way I expect, and other people were interested, we could make it the Unified Small Commonwealth Currency, though its name would probably be a Gralan one. Actually, as long as that name wasn't in the bank people could call it whatever they like in their own country ...

I haven't discussed the connection with the Small Commonwealth with any other Gralans yet (indeed, technically I shouldn't be a rep for Novatainia anymore, I should be a rep for Gralus or for nothing but until North tells me not to/the MCS mod goes through I'll keep acting like a rep) but I thought I'd see if there was interest here first.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Jef Vermussen »

The Islamitische Internetrepubliek is discussing the treaty.

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Erik Mortis »

The SCUE moved here: http://www.micras.org/forum/viewforum.p ... 8823070af2

And branched off from the SC.

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Jef Vermussen »

So I have to propose our application there?

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Re: Unified Currency treaty discussion.

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Yes.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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