Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

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Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Shyriath »

If it's all right, I'd like to start this thread (to be added to as stuff is thought of) in order to explain aspects of heraldry to those who aren't familiar with them. This first post will deal with some of the basics, and some of the misconceptions; also, keep in mind that this deals with more traditional heraldry, and that what we actually end up designing here may vary in some respects.

In the real world, a coat of arms is either granted to or freely assumed by an individual (the specific practice, and the consequences of not following it, vary by country) as a kind of personal symbol, to be inherited by that individual's descendants. The design of a coat of arms is generally described by a heraldic jargon known as blazon, which specifies the position, color, and nature of the shapes making up the shield. It is traditionally understood that it is this blazoning of a coat of arms which officially defines it, rather than any particular depiction; in other words, the description is official, but the image that results from it has significant stylistic wiggle room. A coat of arms may have a number of versions that look surprisingly different from one another, but so long as they all follow the same core description, they are all the same arms.

As for the components of a coat of arms:

The central, and essential, part of a coat of arms is the shield, whose design is the main feature that distinguishes one coat of arms from another. Other components may surround the shield, or they may not, but there can be no arms without the shield.

Usually, the shield has above it a helm, essentially a knightly helmet. The look of the helm, and whether there are any rules about how it looks, vary from country to country. In some more modern heraldry, this may be replaced by other headgear (I've seen some Canadian examples such as a fur hood and an aviator's cap). For members of the clergy, the helm and other components associated with it are often replaced with an ecclesiastical hat

Atop the helm is the torse, or wreath, usually in two colors; this represents the twisted fabric that attached the mantling to the helm. The mantling is a stylized piece of fabric that hangs down behind the helm and shield. Often, the colors of the mantling echo the principal theme of the shield, but this again varies by tradition.

Atop the wreath is usually a crest. This element, representing the fanciful fixtures which were once attached to helmets during tournaments and other ceremonial occasions, is customizable and does not necessarily have to be related to the design of the shield, though it follows similar heraldic rules. The term "crest" or "family crest" should not be applied to the coat of arms as a whole.

Often, there is also a motto accompanying the coat of arms on a scroll; this may be either above or below the shield.

Some elements tend to be given only as a sign of rank, or specifically granted as a mark of distinction.

-Supporters are figures, usually in the forms of animals or people, but occasionally of other types, which as depicted as holding up the shield. They are usually granted in pairs, with one on each side of the shield, but there have been instances of a single supporter to the side (more rarely, a single supporter behind the shield, usually when the supporter is an inanimate object).

-The compartment is another, rarer, mark of distinction, in the form of a landscape. It is almost always granted in conjunction with or after supporters, as it gives the supporters something to stand on.

-In lieu of, or in addition to, the helm, those of feudal rank may have a specific style of crown or coronet corresponding to their rank. In this case, especially when there is only a crown, the mantling tends to be replaced by a robe, depicted as lined with fur and also often rank-specific in its design.

-Various kinds of insignia associated with knightly orders may be depicted in the arms, often in the form of a collar and badge encircling the shield; those associated with positions in government tend to have batons or other symbols of office visible, often depicted as behind the shield with the ends sticking out.

-Rarely, usually in the arms of monarchs, there will be a fur-lined covering over the whole called a pavilion.

The entirety of a representation of a coat of arms is technically referred to as the achievement. Particularly complex arms, such as those representing countries or monarchs, may have different official forms; for example, a set of Greater Arms containing all the elements applicable, and a set of Lesser Arms, which is simplified for situations where convenience is a priority. Any coat of arms may be stripped down to just the shield for ease of depiction if required.

(Note: This will not be an issue for our purposes, but for the sake of completeness: One of the ideas that many people, especially Americans, tend to have about coats of arms is that each one is attached to a family name, and that therefore anyone with a particular last name may freely use it. A lot of websites and services claiming to find a person's coat of arms for them make a lot of money off this misunderstanding. In reality, a person only has a right to use arms if they are actually descended from the particular person who originally had them. In countries like the United States, however, where for most purposes coats of arms are not legally protected, there is really nothing to stop anyone from misusing arms (compare with places like Scotland, which is far stricter about such things).
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Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry: Tinctures

Post by Shyriath »

Coats of arms tend to have a restricted set of colors and patterns for use in their designs, which are collectively referred to as tinctures. Most of these have French-derived names in the language of blazon, and are traditionally divided into several types:

Metals

There are only two of these, called or (yellow) and argent (white).

Colours (note the "u")

The most common of these are azure (blue), gules (red), vert (green), sable (black), and purpure (purple). Less common, or specific to certain countries, are murrey (reddish-purple), sanguine (blood-red), tenné or tenny (tawny orange, though in some countries different than true orange), carnation (pinkish flesh colored), bleu celeste (sky blue), cendrée (dark gray, ash-colored), brunâtre (brown), and ochre (between golden-yellow and light yellowish-brown).

It should be said that there is a certain amount of leeway in depicting the above tinctures. The exact shade of the colour used in the depiction of the arms is not specified, and most possible shades are fine so long as they cannot be mistaken for another named colour (for example, if your heraldic tradition had both azure and bleu-celeste, and you wanted to depict something as azure, the exact shade could be anywhere from a lightish medium blue (but not so light as to be bleu-celeste) to a dark or navy blue (but not so dark as to be mistaken for sable). As for the metals: or literally means "gold" and argent literally means "silver", but they are usually represented simply as yellow or white. It may also be possible to depict them in a metallic fashion, but if so this would be considered just different shades of the same colors. There are only a few heraldic traditions that consider yellow and white to be separate from silver and gold.

Furs

The third category of tintures, furs, are stylized patternerived from the appearance of sewn-together pelts. The principal patterns are ermine and vair, but are difficult to describe purely in words; I suggest a trip to Wikipedia for pictures.

There is also a tincture description called proper, but this is not so much a particular color as a way of saying that the thing it is applied to should be depicted in its natural colors, i.e. "a Siamese cat proper" would look more or less like an actual Siamese cat.

When dealing with tinctures, there is a long-established tradition of heraldic design called the rule of tincture, which says that metal must never be placed upon metal, nor colour upon colour As the metals are light-colored and the colours are dark, this is for the sake of contrast; it means not to place an element on top of something that is too similarly colored. The furs, and charges colored proper, are considered to be neutral for the purposes of the rule.

It is much harder to make out a design from a distance if the colors are too similar to each other t be distinguishable; similar principles apply in flag design. The rule of tincture is not an absolute requirement, and there have been arms that have technically violated it, but in general, it is a very good idea to preserve sufficient contrast in your arms to make it recognizable from a distance.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Erik Mortis »

Let's avoid all use of anything french in terms of words.. they make me swallow my own tongue...

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Bacchus »

Very accurate and comprehensive knowledge of European Heraldric concepts here exhibited, thank you for posting this Shyriath. :)

But Erik raises a point. Well, he doesn't really, but he reminds me of one. Shirerithian Heraldry is meant to represent a break from Eurocentric European EURO FUCKING EURO tradition. I quote Erik's post:

"Shireroth needs its own system of Heraldry! Its own system for making Coats of Arms. We've talked about it in the past, but we always worked with old european systems. We need our own."

Of course, this is not binding, nothing is binding at this stage. But I like the principle- our own heraldric system. While this would be a lot of work, how about we make some simple changes to the existing system to make it more Shirerithian. Maybe the colours in english, for example.

Rather than get specifics down, I will put the question to everyone. Should we stick with European convention strictly, or use a Shirerithian system?
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

We can base it off the European system, but with Shirerithian tweeks. Like you said, the terms in English, the crowns for noble rank doesn't have to be the same, neither do the markers for offices or knighthoods, etc.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Aurangzeb Khan »

What about Japanese styles Mons?

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Erik Mortis »

I say we start from scratch.

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

That has worked really well so far.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Erik Mortis »

Then we get something we can actually call our own.

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

I'd rather have something that is partly borrowed, than nothing.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Erik Mortis »

Why not borrow from a different system then?

It's not hard to have something.

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Bacchus »

Erik- I believe that a "start-from-scratch" system will either end up 1) quite similar to other systems, and then later a distinct and disastrous effort will be made to make it unlike other systems or 2) it will be a little mental, complex (and therefore difficult to understand) and not very good.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Erik Mortis »

And what do you base that on? Considering how much of Shireroth has been created in that fashion.

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Bacchus »

Two examples. You know Shireroth much better than me Erik, so I will not flesh them out, but I'm sure you'll understand.

1) Government. It's feudalism, oligarchial parliamentarism, autocracy swished together with some new elements to make it easier to work in a micronation.
2) Culture. Initiatives were made to clear out all of it- but much of Shireroth's culture was originally based on basically ripping off other things like Warhammer, Warcraft &c.

Both these things are regarded as the most central and "Shirerithian" aspects of our nation, but are both rooted in borrowing stuff from elsewhere.

Maybe when Shirerithian Heraldry has been properly established, you can do what was done to all the place names based off trademarked stuff.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Aurangzeb Khan »

Elwynn for instance successfully resisted attempts at "rebranding" and built up its own quite strong identity in spite of being originally named for a forest in the early Warcraft series.

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Bacchus »

A perfect example. Erik knows what I'm referring to.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Erik Mortis »

1. Our government has been evolving to this for years. And it works quit well. I don't see how this is a problem.

2. No warhammer at all. and only warcraft names on some duchies. That's it! 3 names doesn't make for a cultural problem.


So... I don't see what you are talking about at all.

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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Bacchus »

:D Nevermind. I would say you've missed the point, but I would imagine you haven't. It doesn't matter at any rate.

The simple fact is, we can make a fun, interesting, familiar and easy-to-understand system by borrowing basic concepts from other systems. I agree that the system should be Shirerithian, but that doesn't mean crazy radically different from everything else. Do you disagree with this? And if you do, so much that it is a real problem for you? I think a mountain may have been made out of a molehill.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

I do remember appointing one of you King of Arms, though I can't really recall which one... :p
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Shyriath »

I dunno, Your Niftiness; all I recall seeing was:
You have my most enthusiastic approval, dear Bacchus. You may inform the MiniInt that you want a subforum in the Kaiser's Court named "Chroniclers of Arms" (pretty nifty, huh?), headed by the "Mango King of Arms" or something like that.
Though, the wording could imply that you meant it to be Bacchus... which would make sense, since he was the one who put forth the idea.

In reference to the debate: I had really meant this thread as more of a starting point than an attempt at defining what OUR heraldry was going to be like. Like, "This is what exists, but we can change it and build on it". If everyone thinks it wise to instead go the other way round and just start defining things our own way from the start, then I'll stop posting on the matter (and I will happily be among those to drop the French terms).

But it seemed to me, at any rate, that European heraldry was the most likely starting point, for the reason that the coats of arms we have lying around already are in that style (mostly). We CAN try to strike off in a completely new direction, and possibly even get good results from it, but it would mean that extant arms would have to be reworked, or (depending on how new a system it was) even completely redone, to fit it.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Andreas the Wise »

I assumed we'd keep the basic elements of European heraldry (shields, supporters etc), but make our own colour schemes and symbols (so Count, Duke, Baron, Kaiser, and the Priestly Structure would be our own symbols, not based on existing ones, but the concept of having symbols for them we take).
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Kaiseress Anandja I »

I, personally, want NO remaking of what we already have. I say go with the first suggestion. See what there is and pick the pieces we like.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Shyriath »

Some thoughts on symbols:

So, for officers of the Imperial government (ministers, Praetor/Deputy Praetor, Steward, Arbiter), I was thinking staffs/rods/batons of office behind the shield. Attempts to do conceptual drawings faltered, due to me not being sure how to depict in any great detail the differences between what are basically glorified sticks. (As I mentioned elsewhere, I would not be an ideal heraldic artist.) But, some possible symbols to be put on the batons, if there's an aesthetically pleasing way to do so:

Steward: Since the Steward is basically meant to be a stand-in for the Kaiser, it's easy to imagine ways of doing this. Say, a baton of gold, or of gold-and-silver, incorporating a crown.

MiniImNat: Good symbolism for immigration would probably be in the vein of an open gate or door.

MiniInt: We have pre-existing, of course, the Shirefox symbol. It's not particularly heraldic in nature, but it might be doable nonetheless. Any other thoughts on this?

MiniInfo: Also has a pre-existing symbol as used on the forum index, which is actually pretty good. I've never been sure what it's supposed to symbolize, but there you go. ...Also, the creepy hooded guy in ShireWiki, but that's be a lot harder to stick on a baton.

MiniEx: Perhaps a baton topped with an open hand? Or an olive branch?

MoMA: I cannot help but think that, if MiniEx were an open hand, MoMA could be a closed fist. Or better, one with middle finger extended. (Heehee.) Alternatively, there could be a sword instead of a baton.

MiniTrade: Easy enough to use the Erb symbol or something else obviously money-like.

Praetor/Deputy Praetor: I had trouble thinking of a good symbol for the Praetor; about as far as I can get is something involving a book (for the Lawbook and the Landsraad Procedures).

Arbiter: Scales of justice?

For some more variation, we might want to distinguish the batons of offices derived directly from the authority of the Kaiser (Stward and Ministers) from those derived from the authority of the Landsraad (Praetor/Deputy Praetor and Arbiter). If we go for the idea of each Duchy having its own two-color code, perhaps the Kaiser and Landraad could each have one as well? For the Kaiser, gold-and-silver seems obvious; for the Landsraad... I dunno. There seems to be a recurrence of darkish red in Shireroth (on the national coat of arms; as Shireroth's color on the MCS map; as the color for residents of Brookshire on the fora), so maybe gold-and-dark-red.
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Re: Concepts and Vocabulary of Heraldry

Post by Ari Rahikkala »

I'm not really fond of the MiniInt icon and would prefer a different symbol for it. The Shirefox icon is... well, Firefox-like. Maybe one based on a claw hammer or another construction tool... or a crossed hammer and crowbar to symbolise the occasional breaking of the forum :p

(I'd prefer to keep the current icon on the forum though; I like the way the board front page looks when all the symbols have a lot of variety, and I wouldn't want to collapse all of them into a coat-of-arms basis. I could use the heraldic symbol as a stamp in official MiniInt documents.)
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