New SCIRA Proposal

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Andreas the Wise
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New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Shirithian Civil and Internal Recwar Association (SCIRA)

Scope
Any Shirithian Citizen may have an army. Upon cessation of citizenship their army will be disbanded.
SCIRA only recognises the land held by Shireroth on Micras. Participants may not enter any other land, though they may enter international waters in order to reach other parts of Shireroth.

Judging
The Judge shall be the MoMA or appointed representative.
The judge's decisions are final and cannot be changed. They may realise later an error, but in order to further the forward progress of the war, they are not able to go back and change things.

General RecWar
SCIRA troops may be used in a general recwar, which is a war organised by agreement between individuals. This war can be illusionary (using SCIRA troops but taking place in an illlusion modelled on reality, hence, any damage done does not effect the world after the war, and no troops are lost after the war) or real (using SCIRA troops in Shireroth, any damage done or troops lost is permanent). The war may be fought under any rules or guidelines as long as they include the following:
-All combat troops used in the war have been purchased under SCIRA.
-It is remembered that SCIRA points = the relative strength of the unit.
-Troops can only be engaged in one conflict at a time.
General Recwars can use the SCIRA judge or appoint their own, limit the use of SCIRA troops (for example, to only Medieval), introduce new ways of determining battle outcome, determine any rewards of the war etc, though they are advised to use the guidelines below.

Civil War
If political negotiations between two or more parties (generally over ascension after the incumbent has stepped down) reach such a level that they are deemed virtually-impossible to solve via negotiation, the Judge may declare a state of Civil War. Civil War may be declared on a Duchal level (at which point it affects all units in the Duchy and any units invited in, and fighting may only occur in the Duchy) or at a National level (at which point all units are involved and fighting may occur anywhere within SCIRA boundaries). Once civil war is declared, any involved troops may be used to recwar with. In National civil wars any troops may be used, regardless of any regional restrictions. In Duchal civil wars, only restrictions applying to the whole Duchy are honoured. When the opposing parties reach agreement, or one opposing party is completely defeated, the Judge will declare the state of Civil War over. Troops may be purchased and introduced into conflict midway through a Civil War. Civil Wars will be fought under the guidelines below:

Actions
Troops are moved and commanded in three ways, PUBLIC, SECRET, and RESPONSE. Each unit may only make one Public or Secret action per day. If their opponent responds to that they are permitted to respond again, up to three times per day. If they have been attacked, their first response counts as their Public or Secret action for the day.
For public actions, you post the orders that your troops are given in a War Topic or other similar place, as specified by the judge. It is encouraged to also post a narrative version of your orders, to make reading more enjoyable.
Anonymous ("secret malefactor" in popular terminology) public actions are allowed at the discretion of the judge.
For secret actions, the same procedure is followed, except instead of posting it, you privately send it to the judge (method of contact is at the judge's discretion, typically pm). The judge will determine if the orders are possible to be done secretly. (For example, marching a full army by a city in broad daylight isn't typically something that can be done stealthily, but slipping four covert ops outside a camp to keep watch is.) If the judge deems it impossible, he/she will ask you to post it as a public action instead. The actions does not officially take place until the judge sends you a confirmation. (If you don't have time for this, make a public action, which acts instantly.)
Public and Secret actions can be used in conjunction (like a public battle plan to retreat, and a secret order to set up a minefield behind you to catch pursuers.)
A Response action is used to defend, counter, or otherwise react to another member's action. It can be either a Public or Secret action as well. If the judge thinks the connection is too indirect, or the response is irrelevant, the Response action will have to become its own Public or Secret action instead.
Response actions can be chained - a response to a response to a response is not uncommon in large battles.

Conflict
If an action involving battle or conflict is made, the attacking troops must wait for a Response Action from their enemy before making another move.
If the enemy takes more than twenty-four hours in responding, the commander of the attacking troops may decide the outcome of the conflict (including casualties and such) and proceed on with other moves. This decision of the outcome, if deemed unfair by the judge, can be vetoed and changed (also by the judge).
The outcome of a conflict should be decided (or at least an attempt made) by the involved parties. The base deciding point, if ALL else is equal, is point value. If a 5,000 point force encounters a 3,000 point force, the former should, under normal circumstances, defeat the latter. However, take into account factors such as strategy (a well planned attack by the 3,000 point force met by a thoughtless defense by the 5,000 point force could very well prevail), terrain (high-ground better than low-ground), familiarity (homeland better than foreign land), morale (high spirits [due to defending land from invading forces] better than low morale [due to lack of supplies, overwork, etc.]), among other things.
When posting an attack, the attacker can post expected casualties for both sides. These are in no way set in stone, but merely an idea of what they hope to accomplish. The defending side may then post their counter, and their expected casualties for both sides (which are also subject to change).
If the combatants cannot decide on a consensus for the outcome and casualties within 24 hours of the last Response action (or, if there were no responses, the original action), the judge may make a final, irrevocable, unchangeable decision, which all must abide by.
"God-modding", defined as determining your opponents reaction/result, or the failure to play within acceptable reality as set by the association, is unacceptable. Where persistent and/or deliberate, it results in an appropriate action being taken by the Judge. In essence, your attack post should only include what you plan to do (and if you wish, expected casualties). It may not include how the opponent responds, or assume the attack is successful. This is up to the opponent to respond to. Even if there is no way you can see for the opponent to stop your attack, you must still not god-mod the results. The only exception to this is invoking the 24 hour rule above.

Timeline
Actions occur at the time when they are posted, except for response actions in conflicts, which can occur at any time in between when they are posted and when the action they are responding to was made. This being said, the time of day the action is occurring is up to the person initially making the action.

Purchasing an Army

Units may be purchased from Registered Orbat Sellers.
Units cost the amount of Erb of their strength in Anunia Points. See sections IV.D-G of the Anunia Convention for the principles of determining a units point cost.
Magical units will be determined under NCM or equivalent. By agreement, magical troops operating under other magic systems may be introduced.
At all times, and especially for units not expressly covered under Anunia or NCM, a unit's point cost is their strength relative to other units, with 1 point being a basic modern infantry unit.
Biological Weapons, Nuclear Weapons and other weapons of Mass Destruction may not be purchased under any circumstances.
Units purchased remain until they have been killed.
Only units purchased in this manner, and buildings already described [eg. Existing National Defence, see III.A-C, though for SCIRA purposes these need not be in a specific Existing National Defence post, merely described.] may be used in battles.
Where desired units are not available at any Orbat seller, they may be purchased from MiniTrade at their strength in Anunia Points.
All units are subject to removal by the judge if they are deemed unrealistic as reality is defined by the Association. Anybody in possession of unrealistic units will be given a full refund.

Registering as an Orbat Seller
Prospective Orbat Sellers must gain MiniTrade and MoMA approval before being registered.
Orbat Sellers can only be registered to produce a specific type of troop.
Orbat sellers are required to purchase the raw materials to construct their units from from MiniTrade. Costs are as follows:
Infantry (modern) - 0.9
Tank - 25
Non-Tank Vehicle - 15
Helicopter - 50
Plane - 450
Sub - 900
Ship (any) - 1000
Mage - Their rank cubed
Creature - Their base cost
Unmounted Infantry (non-modern) - 0.3
Cavalry - 5
Siege Weapon - 10
Non-Modern Vehicle - 10
These must be paid for each unit sold.
At present (though this list is subject to change at the discretion of MiniTrade and MoMA) the following categories of troops may be sold, with the following restrictions.
Medieval - In use 14th Century or earlier, no gun powder.
1800's - In use 19th Century or earlier.
Modern - Land - In current or previous use. Land units only.
Modern - Sea - In current or previous use. Sea units only (includes Marines).
Modern - Air - In current or previous use. Air units only (includes Paratroopers),
Advanced - Currently possible technology or possible up to 20 years in the future (at Judge's discretion). Any type.

Amendment
This charter may be amended by the Judge, MoMA or MiniTrade, after consultation with the public, and one weeks notice.
This is my proposed change to SCIRA, as MiniTrade. Consultation kinda already happened but I'm open to further consultation. If there are no objections, this changed version will take effect in a weeks time.

Major Changes:
Removed 'constant' element - now you have to agree to start a war (with the exception of Civil Wars)
Added the 'Civil War' element - so this time if Jake opposed the ascension of the Kaiser, Prodigy would declare Civil War and then it's basically an all in recwar with any troops anyone has.
Added 'General Recwar' element - you can do a recwar in Shireroth with other people by agreement. You just have to use SCIRA purchased troops.
Removed all references to 'member Duchies' - now there's no 'constant' element there's no need to sign up - you can't be invaded unless you want to (except for civil war but that's obviously a different matter).
Oh, and added a clause for non-NCM magical troops to be added - mainly thinking here of Priests and Wizards as Medieval troops as Austi has defined them.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
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Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

I forgot to add one part in ... obviously this parts addition also has to wait a week, but the above part will still come into effect in the less than a week left.
Training/Upgrading
Existing units may be trained/upgraded by Orbat sellers. Training/Upgrading does not have to occur at the Orbat seller the unit was originally brought from. People must pay for this training/upgrading, at a cost equal to the increase in strength the unit gains via the training/upgrading, with the following exception. The cost of training is reduced by 4% for each full, uninterrupted week of training the unit undergoes, to a maximum of 20%. The cost of upgrading is reduced by 4% for each fortnight the Orbat Seller has been researching and developing the upgrade, for a maximum of 20%. Upgrading takes a minimum of a week, and a further day for each % discount. Upgrading need not be concurrent, but units cannot use the upgrade until the full time has been spent.

Orbat sellers may purchase raw materials and train units for future sales. They may also pay for R&D into specific areas, at a cost of 5 erb per week spent researching.
Basic Training = you bought a unit, now you want it slightly better. Instead of having to buy a new one at the higher cost, you just get it "trained" and pay the difference. Basic training makes no difference in price from just buying the unit outright. Any units you do buy outright are assumed to have been already trained in this "basic" sense.
Example - bought 100 infantry at 1 each. You decide you'd prefer 100 SAS at 3 each. Instead of buying new SAS, you train your old infantry and pay the 200 extra.

Useful Training = you're stingy. You buy a unit, then you spend 5 weeks training to get a 20% discount on the training. You can't use the unit during that training time.
Example - bought 100 infantry at 1 each. You decide you'd prefer 100 SAS at 3 each. Instead of buying new SAS, you train your old infantry for five weeks and pay 160 extra to get a total strength of 300. Ie pay 260 + wait five weeks = 300.

Orbat sellers can do this if they want to offer people discounts, but considering that they get all the money from training and still pay the same raw materials cost, its probably not worth it.
Also, training obviously only applies to people and creatures.

Upgrading applies to machines. Basic Upgrading takes a week and is the same as basic trading. You just pay the excess to improve the unit.
Example: You buy a battleship. You decide you want advanced radar (strength 100). You pay 100, and wait a week, and then you have a 5100 battleship with advanced radar.

Useful Upgrading = the Orbat Seller has researched something (eg a new radar). Your upgrade is cheaper because of the research they've already done.
Example: You buy a battleship. You decide you want advanced radar because the orbat seller has researched it. They've spent 10 weeks (and 50 erbs) researching it. You pay 80 and wait 27 days. Then you get a 5100 battleship with advanced radar. The orbat seller can also pre-prepare these things.

Training is simple and makes sense. Upgrading (actually, more researching) is complicated and possibly unnecessary. But reducing the upgrade cost just because you spend more time *doesn't* make sense. So the alternative is to leave upgrades out of it entirely, or make upgrades all take a week and have no discount (and then remove researching). What do people think?
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
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And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Malliki »

I like that you need to agree to disagree so to speak. :) Good amendment.
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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Thanks. In international recwars that's standard.

Any more thoughts on Upgrading? I'm more and more tempted to just drop it, but if people are really interested in it I'll keep it.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Austi_Scot »

I hope the Trainning/Upgrading stays in.
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-----------------------------
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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Oh training will stay. I'm just not sure about upgrading? You liked the ogle.com/a/toketi.org/mito/miceo[/url:2csvijuo]
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Austi_Scot »

Yes, I like both training and upgrading, two ways to increase the value.
Austi Scot
Former Citizen

May Kaiser Mises I rule soon.
-----------------------------
Former Citizen
One Time Order of The Phoenix
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Baron Von_Scot of Hallucination
The future Kaiser Mises I
Former Cessor of Shireroth.
What does the Cessor do?

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Purchasing an Army
Units may be purchased from Registered Orbat Sellers.
Units cost the amount of Erb of 1/5th their strength in Anunia Points. See sections IV.D-G of the Anunia Convention for the principles of determining a units point cost.
Magical units will be determined under NCM or equivalent. By agreement, magical troops operating under other magic systems may be introduced.
At all times, and especially for units not expressly covered under Anunia or NCM, a unit's point cost is their strength relative to other units, with 1 point being a basic modern infantry unit.
Biological Weapons, Nuclear Weapons and other weapons of Mass Destruction may not be purchased under any circumstances.
Units purchased remain until they have been killed.
Only units purchased in this manner, and buildings already described [eg. Existing National Defence, see III.A-C, though for SCIRA purposes these need not be in a specific Existing National Defence post, merely described.] may be used in battles.
Where desired units are not available at any Orbat seller, they may be purchased from MiniTrade at 1/5th their strength in Anunia Points.
All units are subject to removal by the judge if they are deemed unrealistic as reality is defined by the Association. Anybody in possession of unrealistic units will be given a full refund.
And all people who currently have an orbat will be able to buy the other 4/5ths they'll now deserve.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Austi_Scot »

ok, gotta go figure out how many more sailors I can have and how many more medieval fighters.

I'll be backa
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-----------------------------
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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

When I started working out my orbat I realised 10 times is too much (I'd have had a 150000 strong army if we'd gone with 10 times), so I pulled it down to 5 times. Normally people earn ~ 1000 a month via bounties. That would mean you'd get about 5000 troops a month, which is reasonable.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Austi_Scot »

ok, ~pulls out calculator to divide by 2~

yeah yeah, but I spend my bounty on other slightly less important things too.
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May Kaiser Mises I rule soon.
-----------------------------
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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Austi_Scot »

Since the medieval soldiers now cost 1/5 the original price and since I paid for 300, I now claim 1200 more for a total of 1500 medieval soliders. Unless I hear differently I will incorporate these numbers into my story line in Old Hallucination in a few days.

I´ll also wait to post in my Orbat just in case you overrule this for some reason.
-----------
Concerning the spending I did for sailors:
Spent 450 Erb for 500 sailors. With the price change to Units costing the amount of Erb of 1/5th their strength in Anunia Points, 500 sailors should have cost me 90 Erb. That means I have 360 Erb yet to spend at the new prices.

This is how I´ll spend that:
200 Erb on a Carrier
90 Erb on a fighter plan
70 Erb for 389 more sailors (it came out 388.8888888888) so I just rounded

Again, I´ll wait a few days to post in my Orbat and in the Naval Base in case you overrule this for some reason.
Austi Scot
Former Citizen

May Kaiser Mises I rule soon.
-----------------------------
Former Citizen
One Time Order of The Phoenix
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Baron Von_Scot of Hallucination
The future Kaiser Mises I
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What does the Cessor do?

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

90 erb on a Fighter Plan?

EDIT: Remember, the Raw Material costs are meant to be lower than the actual strength. For modern units, work off the Anunia charter values:
http://www.micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2060
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Primary changes have waited the requisite week and so are official.

The further amendments (Training/Upgrading, and Price Lowering) will still need to wait, but I have no objections if people act as if they are already official - I will be for my purchases.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Malliki »

I suppose that the raw material cost is cut down to 1/5th as well?
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Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Austi_Scot »

"May I have a vowel please?" ...
"Sure, which one would you like?"
"An 'e' please"
"There is an 'e', just a moment for our lovely hostest to clear out from in front of the board"
~~~ fighter plane~~~
"I hope that helps you solve the puzzle"
Austi Scot
Former Citizen

May Kaiser Mises I rule soon.
-----------------------------
Former Citizen
One Time Order of The Phoenix
Impartial Envisionor

Baron Von_Scot of Hallucination
The future Kaiser Mises I
Former Cessor of Shireroth.
What does the Cessor do?

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Re: New SCIRA Proposal

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Mike Fors wrote:I suppose that the raw material cost is cut down to 1/5th as well?
Yes.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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