Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

The off-topic. Almost anything goes.
Malliki
Posts: 1822
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Brookshire Hamlet
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Malliki »

Hesam Jayatar wrote:Conservative: Do any of you understand just how far right the republican party is in comparison to other conservative parties in the western world?
In the Swedish parliament, we have seven parties, as follows (from left to right):

Left Party, Greens, Social Democrats, People's Party, Center Party, Moderates, Christian Democrats.

I think that it is rather telling that the only party that sent representatives to the Republican convention were the Moderates. They did however send reps to the Democratic convention as well, together with all the other parties. So, if the politicians in the parliament were to join one of the American parties, all members except a few from the Moderates and the Christian Democrats would join the Democrats. So what does this say about Swedish politics? Well, it does say that we are, generally, very liberal. But it also says that the American conservatives are far more right wing than any mainstream parties in Sweden.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD

User avatar
Chrimigules
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Ano, Kaikias, Antica
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Chrimigules »

Jonas wrote:IF there is corruption. It isn't proved yet. I thought you weren't guilty until someone proved otherwise? :document
Even if she was corrupt, do you really think that the other party isn't?
Yes, IF is definitely the operative word, but Palin's doing a wonderful job preventing herself from even being proven innocent by resisting investigation.

And so what about the other party? All this is is simply an instance of her supporters saying she fights corruption, and how, if this interpretation of events is true, would make her seem a tad hypocritical. Sure, everyone is hypocritical in one way or another, but it's the big ones that people tend to care about, or frankly even remember.

I also find the grunt work being done to contain this as interesting. Some hardcore supporters are as convinced that the liberal media is not only hamming up this story but that they've outright made it up completely (and not even the story, but the blockage of the investigation as well. Quite the reality denial), as they are that Obama is a closet Muslim.
Image

Bayen
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Kingdom of Toketi
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Bayen »

It'll be interesting once it plays out, but you are ASSUMED innocent, not proven innocent. "Rumors of corruption" still looks better than "An official investigation of corruption is currently underway." Even if she's totally innocent, why would she want a potentially scandalous investigation to hurt her already precarious reputation? There are plenty of reasons why she could not want an investigation, it's wrong to just assume she's guilty.
Now, about assessing someone: if you would critize or condemn someone just by relying on word-of-mouth, the gossip-mongers will have won again. All the Repubtlican National Convention speeches are available online, without editorializing, at cspan.org. If you don't know how thorough and reliable your source is, how do you know to form your opinions about someone based just on hearsay? Just listen to what these speakers say, without the editorial filter of a commerntator, and make up your own mind.
Remember also that the speeches of the candidates are not the end-all-be-all, especially when they're talking about the other side. Have you listened to the speeches from both sides? So far I've heard Obama's and Palin's, and I'm going to see McCain's as soon as I finish this homework I'm supposed to be doing :knife . And check out more deeply any cracks they make at the other side.

This may strike you as overly skeptical... maybe it is... but we're talking American politics, here. There's so much mud being thrown around it's hard to find out what's really true and what has been twisted unrecognizably.

Oh, and another funny Jon Stewart clip, just because: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGcn7lmTWY :yay:
Bayen ronToketi
Count of Backbone Site

User avatar
b3n|<3r|\|
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by b3n|<3r|\| »

Bayen wrote:It'll be interesting once it plays out, but you are ASSUMED innocent, not proven innocent. "Rumors of corruption" still looks better than "An official investigation of corruption is currently underway." Even if she's totally innocent, why would she want a potentially scandalous investigation to hurt her already precarious reputation? There are plenty of reasons why she could not want an investigation, it's wrong to just assume she's guilty.
Image
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent

It takes moo to mango!

User avatar
Chrimigules
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Ano, Kaikias, Antica
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Chrimigules »

You want lulz?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viVAAy_qkx0


And found innocent of allegations of corruption look better than resisting investigation of corruption tooth and nail. And it isn't just a simple resistance. It's more like the Alaska State Legislature asking people in her administration to come testify, and them sort of not going, and now the Legislature is going to start subpoenaing people.

EDIT: Corrected for facts.
Last edited by Chrimigules on Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Ari Rahikkala
Posts: 4326
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Ari Rahikkala »

Ari Rahikkala wrote:I like this thread.
I don't like this thread anymore.
No-one should be without a parasol, Sirocco.

Bayen
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Kingdom of Toketi
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Bayen »

Chrimigules wrote:You want lulz?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viVAAy_qkx0
:knife I didn't think it was that funny... I still like to keep the dream that the average person is somewhat reasonable... :(
Bayen ronToketi
Count of Backbone Site

User avatar
Chrimigules
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Ano, Kaikias, Antica
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Chrimigules »

Dreams...
Image

User avatar
Oroigawa Koreyasu
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:23 am
Location: McCallavre, Straylight
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Oroigawa Koreyasu »

Ari Rahikkala wrote:
Ari Rahikkala wrote:I like this thread.
I don't like this thread anymore.
Welcome to the club, I never liked this thread. I want to gtfo of the US because of this thread.

Unfortunately, the only Drexel-sponsored study abroad programs to Sweden and Finland are for engineering students only. :(
Oroigawa Koreyasu
Count of McCallavre, Straylight
Count of Lesser Attera, Kildare
Count of Asantelian, Brookshire

Chairman, Senate of the Lakes, Hurmu

User avatar
hypatias mom
Posts: 2522
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by hypatias mom »

Corey--do you and others of your generation really detest this country so much that you don't want to live here any more? I have never understood that mentality. My generation was told that if we didn't like the way things were going, or the current laws, we should do something about them--get involved in some positive way in trying to change the laws, people's attitudes, etc., without rejecting the entire country and everything about it. This doesn't seem to be an option in a lot of people's minds. The main reason most people go into positions of responsibility, and then into politics, is usually because they feel they can make a difference, and help bring positive change to their schools, or to government, or to society at large.

Don't give up on this country's capacity to change for the better when the people's attitudes are changed. When Americans realize they have been wronging their fellow citizens, they eventually clamor for an improvement in the way things are done. Your generation has the imagination and energy to do this, but if gone about in a destructive and negative way, the entrenched system will only become more stubbonnly unreasonable.

Just as it is impossible to force people's minds and hearts to change, even if you can force them to abide physically with a law or regulation, so it is nearly impossible to bring people to change what they don't feel is necessary, until convinced.

Bayen
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Kingdom of Toketi
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Bayen »

I followed you until the last paragraph, when I got confused. :(
Bayen ronToketi
Count of Backbone Site

User avatar
Oroigawa Koreyasu
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:23 am
Location: McCallavre, Straylight
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Oroigawa Koreyasu »

Carol:

This nation's government works...for other people. I don't like the way it's run, personally, so I might as well just leave and find someplace that does work for me. If people think the policies of the government work, and they happen to be doing fairly alright, I will not try to convince them otherwise. I'll just find others who think the way I do and go to them. Simplifies the system a bit.
Oroigawa Koreyasu
Count of McCallavre, Straylight
Count of Lesser Attera, Kildare
Count of Asantelian, Brookshire

Chairman, Senate of the Lakes, Hurmu

User avatar
hypatias mom
Posts: 2522
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by hypatias mom »

Bayen--

My last point was that you can't force people's minds and attitudes to change. You might force them to behave in a certain way, but that doesn't touch their inner core. In order for real change to occur, people's minds and attitudes need to be persuaded or convinced that those changes should be made, to be worked for. And persuasion works best when the one trying to persuade goes about it in a reasonable, measured way, without hostile or abrasive confrontations.

Corey--

If you can find a society in which you feel at home, and where the political and social system agree with your convictions, I wish you well. As for me, I prefer to try to work one-on-one to change people's hearts and minds. Sometimes it works; sometimes, not, but just cutting and running from an unpleasant reality has never been my style.

User avatar
Scott of Hyperborea
Posts: 2816
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:17 pm
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Scott of Hyperborea »

If you can find a society in which you feel at home, and where the political and social system agree with your convictions, I wish you well. As for me, I prefer to try to work one-on-one to change people's hearts and minds. Sometimes it works; sometimes, not, but just cutting and running from an unpleasant reality has never been my style.
Right. New rule, anyone who uses the phrase "cut and run" from now on will be hanged.

But I think Corey's got a point. Our whole generation is pretty cynical about politics and the possibility for change. The defining political event of your generation was Watergate; the take-home lesson was that politicians were crooks but that change was possible and those crooks eventually had to pay for their misdeeds (for values of "pay" equal to "get a presidential pardon"). The defining event of our generation was watching Bush gut the country, then get all excited about Kerry (well, as excited as one can get about Kerry) and then see Bush fear-monger and negative-ad his way into re-election. The take-home lesson was ignorance is an unstoppable political force, and it's only getting more popular.

I realize that "Everyone who doesn't share my political opinions is stupid" is a classic disgruntled college kid complaint. But it's not just people who don't share my opinions. I mean, there are a lot of people who still think Saddam Hussein directly ordered the 9-11 attacks, and vote based on that assumption. There are a lot of people who aren't even aware we have a federal deficit, and vote solely on which candidate opposes gay people more. And at least they have a real reason for their vote; many other people can't say the same.

I know people who are trying to "solve" the problem. They walk around planting "GO OBAMA!" or "GO MCCAIN!" signs in people's yards. The problem is deeper than insufficient lawn signs. I know other people involved in political debates. Yeah, even some of you. How's that working out for you? When I try it, I immediately become Part of the Problem - ie, the Guy Angrily Arguing For Liberal Views who sits opposite the Guy Angrily Arguing For Conservative Views. The problem is deeper than surface-level political disagreements. It's even deeper than whether McCain or Obama gets elected this cycle, or than the difference between the Democrats and Republicans, or than the difference between the Republicrats and the Libertarians/Greens/whoever.

The problem is human nature, American demographics, and the social and economic incentives underlying the whole system. I suspect the quickest solution is probably technological fixes to human nature, but I intend to be in a country I can be proud of while I'm waiting for them / working for them to happen. If that sounds insufficiently patriotic, so be it; I find most aspects of modern patriotism sorta weird.

Malliki
Posts: 1822
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Brookshire Hamlet
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Malliki »

His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD

User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Jonas »

[quote='http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion ... y_life_for']My wife would be widowed and my children orphaned, but they would take solace in the knowledge that I had given my life to a cause that the people of some nation believed in.[/quote]

This is just... stupid...
What is the wife with a dead husband? :confused
With guys like this, wars still exist. If everyone says they don't want to fight for a country, then there is no war!
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy

User avatar
Ari Rahikkala
Posts: 4326
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Ari Rahikkala »

Hint: It's The Onion.
No-one should be without a parasol, Sirocco.

User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Jonas »

Ari Rahikkala wrote:Hint: It's The Onion.
I don't know what the Onion has as reputation. ;)
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy

User avatar
hypatias mom
Posts: 2522
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by hypatias mom »

Jonas--

The Onion specializes in writing spoof reports about real-sounding subjects. Even if the topic of the article exists, the artcle is a farce; a joke; not-to-be-believed. Don't put your confidence in their "truth." Ever. :D

Malliki
Posts: 1822
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Brookshire Hamlet
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Malliki »

I thought the spoofiness of the article was self evident, but evidently not. :p
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD

User avatar
hypatias mom
Posts: 2522
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by hypatias mom »

So did I... I guess some things are more self-evident when one is totally fluent in the language in which the satire is written.

Malliki
Posts: 1822
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Brookshire Hamlet
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Malliki »

Probably.

'Right,' he said. 'We've done it the modern way, now let's try policing like grandfather used to do it. It's time to -'
'Prod buttock, sir?' said Carrot, hurriedly.
'Close,' said Vimes, taking a deep drag and blowing out a smoke ring, 'but no cigar.'
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD

User avatar
hypatias mom
Posts: 2522
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by hypatias mom »

Definitely one of my favorites! Too bad Pratchett's Discworld series isn't made mandatory reading! Is there nothing safe from his satirical wit? :D

Malliki
Posts: 1822
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Brookshire Hamlet
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Malliki »

I love his dry British humor. That's why I only read his books in English, never the translated Swedish version. You lose at least 50% of the jokes in the translation. The same with animated movies.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD

Bayen
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Kingdom of Toketi
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Bayen »

Yay Discworld!

Piers Anthony is also good with the satirical fantasy in Incarnations of Immortality...
Bayen ronToketi
Count of Backbone Site

User avatar
Daniel Dravot
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:16 am

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Daniel Dravot »

Politics is too important to be left to politicians... or the electorate for that matter.
Image

User avatar
Ari Rahikkala
Posts: 4326
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Ari Rahikkala »

No-one should be without a parasol, Sirocco.

User avatar
Ari Rahikkala
Posts: 4326
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Ari Rahikkala »

more lol, except this time it's actually meant to be funny :). Tina Fey as Sarah Palin, Amy Poehler as Hillary Clinton.
No-one should be without a parasol, Sirocco.

User avatar
hypatias mom
Posts: 2522
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by hypatias mom »

Now, that has got to be one of the cleverest skits involving those two strong, powerful women. To think that this country's people have come so far that the two major political parties have championed so many capable candidates who are seen as different, one for his ethnic mix, one for his advancing age,. and the other two for their gender. Just a decade or so ago, this combination of serious major candidates would have seemed unthinkable to many. No matter who is elected in November, the victor(s) will challenge the traditional requirements that our leaders come from the "old boys' network."

User avatar
Chrimigules
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: Ano, Kaikias, Antica
Contact:

Re: Sarah Palin: Thoughts?

Post by Chrimigules »

They'll still come from the old boys' club. The old boys' club would simply include a larger diversity, and probably have to be renamed the Nonagist Persons' Club. You know, for political correctness.
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Shrine of Controversy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests