What does Shireroth mean to you?

[Jacobus Loki]

It's way too late at night to state my own reasons with any level of clarity, but, please, everybody think about why you are here, what does Shireroth mean to you? Why should it survive?

I remember Erik's cartoons from late '07 of early '08. Maybe someone can dig those out?

It was here:

http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7526

I need a bigger shovel.

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

It's something that means a damn. Something I've put considerable work into and don't wish to see destroyed. I know it's not perfect. And it's got a lot of problems right now. But damn it. It's lasted this long. And it's been a great deal of fun. I do miss the friends, but I still enjoy the friends that remain. And I want to find a way to create more, or reconcile with those that I've lost.

I can't say it's a stress relief for me anymore. After 8+ hours at work, I don't look forward to trying to keep people from tearing it down, but I do take great pride in it remaining, perhaps more then I should. For me, it's a sign that I CAN make something that can last. Something that can be worth while.

I take it's continued survival pretty seriously, that's part of why all this has been so trying for me. Extremely stressful. But I think it'll be worth it. I know the nation will hold together. Personally, I wish those who are trying to tear it down would just grow up, but I also know they won't be successful.

http://epicfailure.shireroth.org/2007.12.12.html as Jake pointed out to me. Is sorta what it's all about. When things aren't as stressful as they are now, it's a place to have fun. Relax. I know it'll be that way again someday. It'll just take a fair amount of work. But I have faith, something that can't be removed by any outside force or nation. (I am looking at you Antica).

I do miss Carol though, following Jakes link, I think she did much for this nation, and the hobby in general, and I think she would be ashamed and saddened at what has become of the people here, and around, and what has become of Shireroth. I think she did more for us as a community and a hobby then we realized. I think her's is an influence we greatly miss. I wish I could have made it to the funeral/gathering in her honour. I know I delivered those messages/flowers to her in the hospital, but look back, I wish I had done more.

...but yes. Shireroth, to me, is a place I can make a difference. I just need to make sure that difference is positive.

The link is http://epicfailure.shireroth.org/ btw.

[Jonas]

I love those comics.

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Shireroth used to be peaceful and fun. And her status as a high-class, experienced micronation is what drew me to her in the first place. I saw her as a place where I could test my muster as a micronationalist. This accounts for a lot of the emo business. After Carol left, Shireroth just stopped being peaceful and fun, and we degraded to a very blue-collar micronation seeped in anger and douchebaggery. Why I continue here is beyond me; perhaps I just wish to see her rise back to the status she once had.

[Jonas]

I'm sure that will happen one one of these days, Corey.

Shireroth is like a volcano: long time it hasn't exploded. This gave people the time to do useful stuff but also led to an explosion of emotions (look to Mike who's playing a crusader and wants to make Elwynn an Antican crusade state ) in the end. This explosion led to destruction (the leave of people). But I'm sure that, just as with a volcano, the ash will result in the revival of the lands (Shireroth).
I have heard that some Anticans are planning to ignore us in the near future, and perhaps that isn't a bad thing. It will give us the opportunity to rebuild Shireroth without foreigners meddling in our affairs.
I'm not scared to take this step: we will rebuild Shireroth. Maybe not the same as in the past, but at least we will survive and get the fun and peace back (most importantly is now finishing the Elwynn case).

A new Era will begin!

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

And I think that's why we have a chance. Corey, like you I feel the same about Shireroth. So.. if you feel this way, I feel this way.. Jake feels this way... If we all feel like we should act with respect, civility and maturity. Then what's stopping us? Nothing. We can remember Carol, and ask how she would feel about our actions, and use that to guide us. She was a light and a beacon of maturity and civility in this nation. We need only remember her and use that memory to guide us into the future.

[Jonas]

To go back on the subject:
I came to Shireroth in February or March 2007 as a young, foolish micronationalist. From a distance I had seen what Shireroth had to offer and I was intrigued by the chances it offered their citizens: as new citizen I immediately got a county in the Dutchy of Kildare (if I remember it right it was Carol and Hypatia who welcomed me as one of the first and introduced me to Kildare) that I could develop like I wanted. Next to the freedom (which was, ironically much larger and better protected then in nations that called themselves 'democratic' or 'republic') the political system was interesting: the feudal hierarchy, the Duke who represented the Duchy, etc.
It was, indeed, quite peaceful back in those days (which almost led to its dead. However, we survived while everyone had given up hope). I can't say anything else then Erik: Carol was extraordinary, a woman who brought peace to our Empire and wicked brains.
Shireroth is special, it has a good system with some minor errors (which could frustrate people over time) but these will slowly get fixed (but it's never perfect: some will give one thing the fault and others something else).

I love Shireroth and its citizens. I couldn't have imagined to have been a micronationalist without having met people like Carol, Jake, Erik, Andreas,... here. Without the Empire it would simply been a lot more boring.


EDIT: Indeed, Erik. Indeed. We can have as many rules as you want, it will not solve certain problems. We should also ignore people who are trolling and sickening our nation (not of course, when they make serious comments).

[Scott of Hyperborea]

After the fall of the Apollo Sector, I was tired of politicking and just wanted somewhere to hang out with the old crowd I'd grown to know and love in Apollo, Tymaria, and Menelmacar, and chat and do cool stuff together.

A lot of the old Apollo crowd drifted off and left, some of the others got bitter and annoying, and eventually I stopped enjoying my interactions with many of the remaining people. But we did have a lot of good times.

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

I'm, gonna agree with you there Scott. There was a lot of good times, before the bitterness and anger. We can still chat and do cool stuff though. Would you ever consider coming back?

[Andreas the Wise]

I'd definitely agree with the general sentiments expressed above. When I started, Shireroth was fun. It was a cool place to do more crazy land stuff; the feudal system encouraged me to build up; people were friendly and willing to try new things (particularly with the economy); and I met lots of cool people. The last while, particularly since all the rebellions started and Al'Magroth, Shireroth hasn't been much fun a lot of the time, and the bickering and arguments annoy me (one of the reasons I don't frequent MCS as much as I used to, same there), though often I just leave you guys to keep arguing and don't intervene.

If we all want to be civil to eachother, I think that's an excellent start for recapturing the Shireroth we all knew and loved.

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

Maybe we need some system of constructively handling disputes, other then suing each other. Have a third party moderate the issue, see if we can't bring it to a constructive conclusion. Not saying a legal option, but a cultural one.

[Jacobus Loki]

I'd say that's the perfect job for the "Duke", unless it crosses boundaries, where it should be the job of the Kaiser.

I still believe in the quote Jonas has preserved, to risk quoting myself,

A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice.

[Ryan]

I do not consider my departure to have changed my relationship with anyone in regards to personal friendships and acquaintances. Just because I emigrated, does not mean I hate anyone or am holding some sort of grudge.

For lack of a better way to describe it: It's become too cramped here to suit my needs/style any longer, and therefore it is time for me to move on to different things.

[Jacobus Loki]

Background for the younger folks.

Ryan has been around the sector for - Well, you know the expression WTPRH? He started the PRH. (People's Republic of Hell). And lots of other MNs.

We have alter egos=papels=double-log-ins who are related to each other. So to me he's family in an odd way.

I know the Tri-Cit Rule is a hard one for him. Be nice to him when he's around. He'll be back.

[Jacobus Loki]

About time I get to this.

Milena ago, as a micronational wanderer/outcast/freedom fighter, I would wander by Shireroth.

Early on, my reaction was wtprh? Later, it was, "OMG, they are still here!"

Every time there was a welcome beyond the typical, "Hey, lets go recruit the new guy." As my (in)fam[e](y) grew, it was a cautious, "may the gods save us, it's him again", but there was always the option, the opportunity to lay down my battles and wars, and settle down in a community.

The place was always awash with talent, some settled for ages, others comets blazing across the firmament, but there was always talent. Writers, artists, storytellers, who added to the tapestry that was/is Shireroth.

At the end of the Third Era (c.3000 ASC) it was time to end my battles. Horror of horrors, the forum was full of talk of D00OOM, of the end of Shireroth, how other nations were so much cooler, and how Shireroth should die gracefully, that it was so old, not enough people left, and some of those aren't even citizens, etc, etc.

There was even an attempt by Jeremy (?) to usurp the throne.

Up stepped Kaiser Mahamantot I, and fought off the would-be invader!

Up stepped Kaiser Mors V, who slew the misguided Letifer III with his own hand, and begot the Fourth Era.

Era? Era! I daresay few if any of the nations of Micras can honestly divide their history into continuous eras!

Squabbles, yes, we have had our share. Iron sharpeneth iron, but stress drives people into exile. Alas, so it has been. So it has always been.

But we are the heirs of mighty sires, and participation and citizenship in Shireroth still means something. What that will mean in the following era is for those of us here today to set the tone.

Hoch der Kaiser!

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

Ryan, what would it take to not cramp your style here?

[Ryan]

Tri-Cit is currently a problem since I have no plans to relinquish my roles in Babkha, Antica, or my own new project of Greater Helium. So the subject of my returning is, at this point anyway, a moot topic. Yet of all the problems with Shireroth, that was the least-pressing that I've encountered.

I have already stated elsewhere that Shireroth has a reached a point of "cultural overkill". I may, for the sake of explaining my opinion clearly, write this out as an open letter to the community. However, I don't have time to do so now since I need to head out to work. So the lengthly explanation will have to wait.

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

Despite that, I may understand.

Let me try. Basicly, we developed so much culture, tradition...etc, that there was no room for creation. There was no space for new ideas, without stepping on the toes of old ideas. People protected the past with rabid abandon. Nothing was allowed to change, what was should always be.

Is that the gist of what you mean? (If so, I agree. Though I know my own guilt in it all.)

[Ryan]

Yes, that's actually a very good summation.

[Harvey Steffke]

Ryan, I had some thoughts on http://nelaga.info/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=990 on micronations in general that have this problem. Maybe similar to what you're talking about here?

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

It was part of what I tried to solve with Houses, I just didn't think it all the way through. It also leads to a contradiction. I think it was Max who complained that in Shireroth, once you leave your work is cast aside and tossed in the rubbish bin. Yet, you and others think there's to much made "sacred". So, how do we deal with both of those?

[Jadie Kelb]

Back on the original topic: I have a very unique view of Shireroth. Shireroth means something different to me than probably any one else in micronations. Because of Shireroth, I met my husband. It was Erik and Fax as well as Eros...that told me to join Shireroth saying it would be fun...8 years later (almost) I married some Zary guy that I met in micronations. So I guess Shireroth holds more personal memories for me and I would hate to see it die. And it won't die as long as Shireroth has citizens that love her and remember what she means to them. See past the bickering, angst and finger-pointing...try to remember why you joined Shireroth in the first place...and what hooked you to stay.

Sidenote: Really sorry I haven't been on more...Master's program is kicking my ass...on top of working full time! I will try harder!!

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

I still think it's funny you disliked Zary when you met him online...

And no worries, we all have lives that keep us busy.

[Jadie Kelb]

Yeah well, we both had to do some changing I guess. Me stop being such a goody two-shoes and him stop being a pot-head. :P

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

And I helped! (with the first)