Antica completely destroyed my creation.

[Elliot Markham]

After spending much time working for Antica in various offices, and finally developing a vast provincial culture (just like any Duchy here), I was handily rewarded by the Antican government, who had holed themselves up in a private, hidden forum. They repeatedly made personal attacks and then attacked and invaded my province of Samudra. They would rather destroy than create. Octavius has lied to slander me; once lying starts, anything can happen. Now, anything does happen in Antica.

Don't join the Antican Republic, they'll destroy your creation. Just like they destroyed Delphi's.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

I tried to prevent all this from happening! Which is why I messaged you in the first place. In the Cabinet too, I tried to seek compromise and tried to convince the others to tone it down. Ultimately I led the invasion force myself in order to personally supervise things and prevent damage; I wanted to preserve Samudra intact. Unfortunately, things got way out of hand. Also you yourself deleted a lot of Samudran posts during the invasion.

[CJ Miller]

After spending much time working for Antica in various offices, and finally developing a vast provincial culture (just like any Duchy here), I was handily rewarded by the Antican government, who had holed themselves up in a private, hidden forum. They repeatedly made personal attacks and then attacked and invaded my province of Samudra. They would rather destroy than create. Octavius has lied to slander me; once lying starts, anything can happen. Now, anything does happen in Antica.

Don't join the Antican Republic, they'll destroy your creation. Just like they destroyed Delphi's.

Indeed.

The government of Safiria is more than willing to harbor Antican refugees seeking political asylum.

[Harvey Steffke]

Don't bring this crap here.

[Elliot Markham]

I tried to prevent all this from happening! Which is why I messaged you in the first place. In the Cabinet too, I tried to seek compromise and tried to convince the others to tone it down. Ultimately I led the invasion force myself in order to personally supervise things and prevent damage; I wanted to preserve Samudra intact. Unfortunately, things got way out of hand. Also you yourself deleted a lot of Samudran posts during the invasion.

Who led the invasion force? Notwithstanding our past personal cooperation with regards to the development your own province of Aryez, I cannot forget that it was you, Aryeztur, who led the invasion force. Leaving Antica is probably the best thing you can do; the invasion that you were talked into heading is already looking like a terrible blunder. Antica invades ITSELF. It is so laughable, it is almost incomprehensible. And yet it is true.

[Malliki Tosha]

who had holed themselves up in a private, hidden forum.

You knew it was private, you knew it was hidden, yet you bitched and moaned.

Ellot, kindly fuck off from Shireroth. We don't care.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Who led the invasion force? Notwithstanding our past personal cooperation with regards to the development your own province of Aryez, I cannot forget that it was you, Aryeztur, who led the invasion force.

Obviously I did, and obviously if I didn't someone else would've, as Albion's forces did anyhow. If you had to have been invaded by anyone, it was best it was me, since preserving and protecting cultural development is a keen interest of mine. I even left you as Governor. Had you waited, as I told you to, for a couple of weeks, things would have been resolved as I would have seen to it that you would be appointed an Ambassador and that provincial reform would have gone through. Also, nobody understands why CJ quit. On the other hand, I will not deny that certain people were not favorably disposed towards those who left us, but you can't get everyone to like everyone.

Let it be clarified: Antica is a free country, in which anyone can hold and express any political views they want. Therefore, the term political refugee cannot be applied to Anticans. What happened was the result of a lot of people getting emo due to misunderstandings.

[Malliki Tosha]

CJ is a tag-along monkey.

[phineas elastopon]

Aryeztur, I think the users of this forum have made their views on this matter perfectly clear and I think it might be an imposition to keep posting in this thread. There's an identical one on the MCS forums and out of respect to Shireroth I think we should keep this kind of squabble to our own forum, or international ones.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Of course. I'll stop posting. One last thing. Elliott kept on declaring loyalty towards Antica and antipathy towards Shireroth. But I must say, actions speak louder than words, That is all. I will cease posting in this thread now.

[Elliot Markham]

Let it be clarified: Antica is a free country, in which anyone can hold and express any political views they want. Therefore, the term political refugee cannot be applied to Anticans. What happened was the result of a lot of people getting emo due to misunderstandings.

However, that is not bore out by reality. Also, after Samudra was invaded, a refugee forum (now removed) was set up by the Antican occupying forces in Samudra's subforum in the Academy of Antica.

Also, nobody understands why CJ quit.

I guess nobody wants to be ditched.

Obviously I did, and obviously if I didn't someone else would've, as Albion's forces did anyhow. If you had to have been invaded by anyone, it was best it was me, since preserving and protecting cultural development is a keen interest of mine. I even left you as Governor. Had you waited, as I told you to, for a couple of weeks, things would have been resolved as I would have seen to it that you would be appointed an Ambassador and that provincial reform would have gone through. Also, nobody understands why CJ quit. On the other hand, I will not deny that certain people were not favorably disposed towards those who left us, but you can't get everyone to like everyone.

Albionish troops were waiting behind your troops, Aryeztur. They were under the control of Albion's leader, not you. Also, a decision was made to occupy Asalia. This decision apparently came straight from the Antican central government, not you. Asalia was one of the main cities of Samudra, a cultural and economic center. It was already a part of Antica, so its seizure makes no strategic sense. I had been planning to work on a much more detailed city map for Asalia, one which would carefully show the placement of the freeway, highways, roads, shops, bustling city centers, and the international airport. How was I supposed to continue such work if Asalia could be, as it was, grabbed away on some Antican official's whim? How is anybody who joins Antica supposed to develop a culture under such threat? I would not recommend it. Perhaps Shireroth is a better place to spend one's efforts with such benign things as mapmaking, conlanging, and storywriting--the things I was doing with Samudra.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

It's practically against my religion to actually help an Antican, but still...

Lots of people do stuff because they think it's a game, or in the heat of the moment, or for other reasons that don't really matter. Looking at Samudra, it looks like Aryez and Ben are perfectly willing to let you stay on as governor. I bet if you just went there and asked "Hey, can I have Samudra back, I promise not to do any more rebelling?" they'd probably say yes. That's how we'd do it here, anyway. It's worth a try, at least.

That having been said, you're totally right when you say that Shireroth is a much better place for conlanging, culture-building, and really everything else. I'd invite you to join, but Malliki would probably blow a blood vessel with rage or something and then I'd have to be the one to sort out the ensuing apocalypse.

Also, Octavius going around lying and slandering people seems about as likely as Malliki going around hugging people and singing "Kumbaya". Just too out of character.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Not only willing. I reinstated him as Governor before he left. It was just meant to be a lesson, nothing permanent.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree with the Kaiser. No matter when a person goes, there will always be people who support their cultural endeavors, like Scott, and always people who run 'em out of town like Malliki.

[Malliki Tosha]

Hey, I like Kumbaya. This thread should be locked.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

I kinda like having a few threads insulting Antica open at all times. It's a good reminder of how much better we are than they.

I'll leave the decision up to Ari, who by laws ancient beyond the reckoning of mortal men retains full power over the Shrine of Controversy. But any of this gets out of the Shrine, it gets locked or deleted.

[Elliot Markham]

Also, Octavius going around lying and slandering people seems about as likely as Malliki going around hugging people and singing "Kumbaya". Just too out of character.

The best liars are those who seem trustworthy, Bernie Madoff for instance.

[Malliki Tosha]

Elliot, if you are bringing your beef with Antica here, please gtfo. This is not the MCS.

[Elliot Markham]

Kaiser, I appreciate your kind and thoughtful words. Yours is indeed a voice of sanity in what has been a difficult situation.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Weren't you trying to crown him King just a week ago?

[Elliot Markham]

Aryeztur: Octavius/chrimigules? After his repeated refusals, the suggestions to crown him "King" or some similar such title, as you know, have become a running gag among Antican citizens. Frankly I stopped seriously considering him for Head-of-State after his handling of the Kezan Affair, although I had already started experiencing doubts earlier after his handling of Samudra's requests for a separate subforum. There just was not enough evident concern, on the part of Octavius, for either Antica or its provinces, in my opinion.

[Malliki Tosha]

Samudra has a separate subforum.

[Harvey Steffke]

Mr. Kern deserves some sort of award for saying he was going to stop posting here and then actually keeping his word and stopping with the posting here. Though Scott does have a point with the principle of this thread. It's nice to see other people having these sorts of weird problems for a change.

[Chrimigules]

I didn't even post once!

EDIT: Dammit!

[Ari Rahikkala]

I kinda like having a few threads insulting Antica open at all times. It's a good reminder of how much better we are than they.

I'll leave the decision up to Ari, who by laws ancient beyond the reckoning of mortal men retains full power over the Shrine of Controversy. But any of this gets out of the Shrine, it gets locked or deleted.

You do realise it was you who made me moderator of the OT in the first place .

Anyways, I don't see what bad could possibly come out of leaving this thread open except for people getting their panties into ever more twisted configurations over an.. erm... actually, I don't really have any idea what the whole conflict even is over. I checked the Samudra subforum and I saw Elliot doing the usual kind of stuff that would happen in counties here, then benkern did a rec-invasion and Aryeztur did something I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean... and apparently Elliot had been praised for his cultural development but edited it out for whatever reason?

[Elliot Markham]

and apparently Elliot had been praised for his cultural development but edited it out for whatever reason?

Ari: The outgoing Speaker, Phineas (a.k.a. Colonel Vilhelm), used a transportation infrastructure map I had devised for Samudra as the basis for the battle plans for his invasion (the invasion from Albion which was to occur after the invasion from Aryez). In his post he said that these battle plans were innocently provided to him BY Samudra upon request by the Albionish, which was obviously a little bit of comedy that even I in this moment of surprise found humorous. Unfortunately, this misuse of my material demonstrated how, once Samudra was under the control of Antica, they could take over and modify anything I wrote about or designed for Samudra. Moreover, they could make unnecessary and perhaps vindictive changes to the various works I had created for Samudra's culture. This is why I removed several of the said works from Antica's forums, by editing my own posts, which is an option every user has had in Antica for a very long time (and is common on forums in general).

Apparently, Antica no longer wants its citizens to have this option. Phineas, after this conflict, has tried to institute a ban on ALL Antican citizens to keep them from editing their own posts, as a form of "collective punishment." (See here: http://nafticon.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2322 ) Naturally, of course, since editing posts is quite common on a forum, numerous Antican are in opposition to this move. Frankly, I do not understand why the Antican general public should be punished in this manner.

[Ryan]

News flash, bucko: When you contribute to a community, it becomes a part of that community, for its constituent members to do with as they please (within reason).

It's like a charity. You don't donate money and then say "Hey! You spent it on coffee when I wanted donuts!" and then take your money back. It doesn't work that way.

[Malliki Tosha]

[img]Insertbutthurtpichere[/img]

[Elliot Markham]

I took some time today to review again the screenshot beets/Entropious made about the cabinet forum being hidden. It is viewable here http://nafticon.org/~entropious/vasroe2.PNG .

In retrospect, I can definitely see how others, on the basis of just that one screenshot, might have read that I was agreeing with Octavius that the subforum should be both a) private and b) hidden. The words Octavius uses do sound like he could be saying that the forum was to be both of those things, not just private (a); I did not before recognize this. Thus, in absence of any other evidence, I would like to withdraw my previous claim that the screenshot "clearly shows" that Octavius' statements about the conversation in the screenshot were false.

Nonetheless, I continue to condemn the actions of the Antican Cabinet with regards to its actions towards Samudra and also certain of its members with regards to their involvement and complicity in the Kazan Affair.

[Kaiser Ikol II]

Glad to see you haven't left micronations entirely. As for Antica, I think they were like us - basically nice people but with a tendency to let a hunt for lulz get the better of them that in retrospect we probably should avoid.