Joining the economic simulation

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Guido Zambelis
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Joining the economic simulation

Post by Guido Zambelis »

I am directed by my government to inform you of our interest in joining the economic simulation of the Small Commonwealth. At this time, interest has not however been expressed in joining the full organisation. I pray that our approach is indeed possible?

Guy Ziegler,
Secretary of State for His Imperial Majesty's Foreign Department,
Empire of the Alexandrians.

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Harvey Steffke
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Harvey Steffke »

I'm afraid not. The Small Commonwealth Unified Currency Treaty is only available to members of the Small Commonwealth, as per line one of the treaty:
1. Any nation who has signed the General Membership Treaty may sign this Small Commonwealth Unified Currency Treaty, provided they gain approval from existing signatories.
Emphasis mine.

You're not the first one to come here asking for this. Antica came here asking about the exact same proposal not too long ago: http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=248&t=11810. As we told them, if you wish to have absolutely no part in the Small Commonwealth other than the SCUE, simply do not sign any other treaties other than the General Membership treaty and the SCUE and don't participate in discussions here or vote for people or any of that stuff. Everything about the Small Commonwealth is voluntary so you won't be roped into anything you do not want to be a part of, but we aren't going to grant exceptions for nations that don't want to associate with the Small Commonwealth by not signing the General Membership treaty but still want the benefits of joint programs like the SCUE.

Erik Mortis
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Erik Mortis »

Harvey is correct. To be a Member of the Small Commonwealth Unified Economy... you must first be a member of the Small Commonwealth. This isn't hard to do. And it forces nothing on you. All it means is you can say you are a member, and get your name added to a list.

Guido Zambelis
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Guido Zambelis »

Gentlemen, thank you.

I have conveyed as such to my government.

Guido Zambelis
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Guido Zambelis »

Sirs,

I am delivering the following message from Jean Carmichael, the First Consul.
To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to you, fellow Micronational leaders, as First Consul of the Empire of the Alexandrians.

As First Consul, it has been the expressed desire of the Government I lead to further the Alexandrian economic simulations created in the past. After careful study by the Alexandrian Imperial Cabinet, we decided that the best approach to achieving this would be close co-operation with the Small Commonwealth Economic Simulation. The current plan we have is as follows:

* The creation of a National Stock Exchange.
* The Re-evaluation of the National Currency.
* The setting up of a National Bank.
* A one off grant to each citizen from the National Bank.


As of the moment, we do not wish to enter into a single currency with the Small Commonwealth but only request permission to start trading within the Small Commonwealth Economic Simulation. As you may note if you visit our forum, our Economic Stimulus Bill has a requirement to have a fixed, but periodically reviewed, exchange rate between the SMEU currency and the Imperial Ecu.

I understand that the first tentative approaches regarding Alexandrian participation were rebuffed straight off and reference made to what appear to have been, in certain quarters, particularly heated debates regarding a similar Antican proposal. However, I and HIM Government wish to continue dialogue in this matter so some sort of wider understanding with the possibility of an agreement may be possible in the future.

Yours Faithfully,

Jean Carmichael, First Consul

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Harvey Steffke
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Harvey Steffke »

First off, upon reflection and re-reading my earlier reply, I was probably a bit out of line. I desired to be firm on the point but seem to have crossed over a bit into unnecessary hostility. My only defense is that it took several, somewhat exasperating repetitions to have the Antican representative understand our position, but is is hardly fair to judge the innocent for the crimes of the guilty, so I apologize if my statement was offensive in any way.

With that out of the way, the proposal from the First Consul is very interesting, however I feel that I would go too far out on a limb to say it is acceptable given the current treaty that establishes the Commonweath Bank. There are no provisions that provide for direct trading with an outside bank, but neither are there any that prohibit them either. For something like this to set up, I believe it would require either an amendment to the general treaty or some sort of committee meeting of the SCUE member nations to determine if they wish to enable such a policy. Neither of which are outside the realm of possibility.

Personally, I approve of the idea quite a bit. I am interested to see what views the other representatives have on the matter.

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Jonas
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Jonas »

For something like this to set up, I believe it would require either an amendment to the general treaty or some sort of committee meeting of the SCUE member nations to determine if they wish to enable such a policy.
I have bad memories of such kind of system used by the NEVO. It's ineffective and I don't recommend it. I want to propose that Antica seeks a nation (or more then one) that is prepared to work with them and develop a system for trade.
Another reason why I'm not agreeing with this idea is that this would let it look that we are really working as a nation with one policy, what's not the truth.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
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Andreas the Wise
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Andreas the Wise »

This matter is easily resolved - it would be handled in exactly the same way as currency exchange with Antica. The Small Commonwealth Currency Union as an entity has no (well, soon to be very little) funds; and doesn't do any sort of official exchange with other nations because the SCUE has not been empowered to sign treaties as an entity. However, individuals are welcome to enter into whatever sort of agreement they want; which includes giving someone SCUE currency in exchange for currency of another nation.

For example, with Antica, the private company VBNC organised currency exchange with a private individual, Vasroe; and now they've handled an exchange with Malliki and have what appears, by Antican standards, to be a fortune; and eventually they might work out what on Micras they can do with all their newfound wealth. In my opinion, the Antican economy is a bit messed up, because the government has 99000979371.00, and the casino has 989896404.36, and now a private citizen has ended up with 50001002.00, where as normal people have ~2000; with the result that if the government wanted, they could totally mess over currency traders by giving all their citizens a million each, meaning that money held by non-ctizens became worthless; but hey, we're risking it for now.

If Alexandria had a more stable currency (by which I mean they have a set amount in circulation, and the government doesn't just have millions more than the citizens), then it would be easy to work out a fair exchange rate. Either exchange could be worked out between private individuals; or the government of Alexandria could make an agreement with an SCUE individual, and subsequently trade from their reserves at a set rate; or the government of Alexandria could make an agreement with another government involved in the SCUE to trade currency (eg Stormark).

All three of those options are perfectly appropriate under the existing treaty; and all are practical solutions for the Alexandrian government (and indeed any government who would like exchange with the SCUE, but don't want to be a member). The one thing you should note is part 5 of the treaty.
5. Participants within this unified currency shall register their accounts in a particular signatory nation, or region thereof. By registering with that nation, participants' accounts are subject to any economic regulation or taxation of that nation, but not of any other nation.
It does not exclude non-citizens from registering an account; but it does mean your account is under the laws of that nation; so depending on their laws could be taxed, have their currency seized etc. But if Alexandria worked out a deal with another government, they could certainly get their account special tax exempt status through diplomatic negotiations, I'm sure. And anyone gaining SCUE currency has the guarantee that their currency is not going to become worthless because the amount in circulation is suddenly multiplied by 100. Apart from the unlikely event of 20 micronationalists within the SCUE leaving the hobby forever, the currency is more stable than any previous micronational currency, because it has the backing of not one, but half a dozen nations.
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Erik Mortis
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Erik Mortis »

As much as I'd love to be as willing as others, I can't agree. We created the SCUE so we would have NO exchange rates. Shireroth made a treaty with Antica (or was it a corporation made an agreement?), and this is allowed. But I don't feel it should be encouraged.

The SCUE was created to build a single unified currency and economy, where many separate and unstable economies have ALWAYS failed. If we do this then it will simply weaken the goal of the SCUE to create an economy with the size and population to finally work, signs of which we have started to see.

We should not be trying to find loop holes and alternate ways to get nations to work with the SCUE. While I'd love to be obliging, and mean no disrespect to the Alexandrians, I don't think this is something we should encourage either as individual nations or as the SCUE treaty members as a whole.

I would once again greatly encourage the Alexandrians to sign the General Membership Treaty, which would cost them nothing and bind them to nothing. Doing that they should sign the SCUE treaty, have full access to the entire economy we are creating, and remove many of the weaknesses inherent to individual national economies. It's nothing but a win for Alexandria, and would allow you two participate in perhaps the first true hope we have ever had at creating a working micronational economy.

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Andreas the Wise
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Re: Joining the economic simulation

Post by Andreas the Wise »

I also echo what Erik said. What I said is the ways to work around it which aren't illegal. But joining the SCUE, especially if you are restarting the economy and don't really have it working yet, is definitely the easiest and best option.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
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Q - Director of SAMIN
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And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).

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