Support Jonas?

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Milords of Yardistan,

I make this address in a time of emergency in the Imperial Republic. I realise according to the Constitution for this Diet which I myself drafted and approved I am no longer allowed to speak in this chamber but nevertheless I feel I must say what needs to be said.

Things are really crazy right now. Mike wants Jonas removed from his position of Praetor before he becomes the longest ever serving Praetor. I personally don't care whether Jonas reaches that milestone or not, but he has served the Imperial Republic faithfully for so long now (well - there was the whole "DISAPPROVED" thing, but that was minor at best); his impeachment seems very extreme to me after he made one mistake. And regardless of what he says, he did make a mistae, I think we should all be able to admit that now.

If Jonas is willing to get the Charter to the way it was before the crazy edits, I say Yardistan supports him in his role as Praetor. If Jonas is out, who is in? Certainly not a Yardistani. Apparently Erik. Now I disliked Erik as Arbiter and I bet I will dislike him as Praetor. I want Erik to be Kaiser or not, not to sort of sit half way in between - as Arbiter he was like a watchdog over the Kaiser and the Landsraad, as Praetor he will be a direct opponent of the Kaiser - at least according to Mike and Erik. That is not a place I would like to see Erik in Shireroth.

These are just my personal feelings, if any other Yardistani feels differently please do make your case known so we can get this debate out in the open. However, I think Jonas has been a fine Praetor for many moons and it would be a shame to lose him over something so silly and so crazy. Even if he is from Kildare, he did support our rabble-rousing fellow Yardistani Jacobus for a good long while too. So think on that, Yardistanis and mi'Duke.

[Malliki]

Um, opponent to the Kaiser? Not a rubber-stamp at least. Brookshire has come out in total support of the Kaiser, with express approval from Erik, something I haven't seen from you lot.

[Prodigy Almighty]

One slip up - and I'm not going to say it's "minor", but it isn't something too overtly consequential - should not be a death sentence. I believe we should support Jonas in retaining his title of Praetor. As Benkern has said, Jonas has served long and dutifully as the Praetor so far, and for all of the good work he's done, he deserves more consideration than being ousted after one mistake.

[Malliki]

It is the combination of his support for Loki's amendments and his actions after that that led me to propose his removal. I dislike when the officer of the Landsraad imposes restrictions on what possible amendments he will or won't support. Jonas has also made it perfectly clear that his support for the amendments wasn't a mistake.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Um, opponent to the Kaiser? Not a rubber-stamp at least.

I didn't say I want the Praetor to be a rubber stamp - which I don't - I said you two want him to be an opponent to the Kaiser - which I don't. I recall a conversation on the forum somewhere in which someone said "Let's not make this an adversarial relationship... [between Kaiser and Praetor]" and you said &qut;It already is whether you like it or not".

Brookshire has come out in total support of the Kaiser, with express approval from Erik, something I haven't seen from you lot.

Yeah, total support of the Kaiser isn't really a Yardistani thing to do. However when people start messing with good systems- no, sorry, you never mess with the system, you change the interpretation. It's happened before... I remember arguing about this, perhaps over the Local Prerogative Bill or something. Basically things work one way in Shireroth, things are written in another way, and you're attempting to force the written literal system on the real Shirerithian community. In a dynamic hobby like this, it's hard to keep the laws accurate to reflect what the nation is actually like.

Jonas has also made it perfectly clear that his support for the amendments wasn't a mistake.

He was wrong, and if he can't admit that by now he's just being silly. I don't care whether he believes it was wrong or right, but if he wants to keep the Praetorship, he should just lie and keep everyone happy. Which is why I said in my original address, "If Jonas is willing to get the Charter to the way it was before the crazy edits, I say Yardistan supports him in his role as Praetor."

[Malliki]

The adversarial role is built into the Charter. It isn't automatic though. What I don't like is the lack of reflection on the role of the Praetor, the constant "Why should I protect the Landsraad?" remarks, and this from the speaker of the Landsraad. I have no problems with a Praetor that supports a Kaiser's amendments, but I do have a problem when it is in this uncritical fashion.

I know I made some mistakes as AssArb in the beginning. I was new to Shireroth and hadn't really appreciated the complexity of the community. However, saying now that I attempt to force the letter of the law onto Shireroth is silly to put it mildly. The Local Prerogative thing was in the beginning of my AssArb-ship. I held a more literal interpretation than Erik, and Erik won. The laws are there for a reason. If you don't like the laws, have them changed. The Arbiter's ruling isn't final, it can be appealed to the Kaiser, something I can't really remember that anyone has done with one of my rulings.

I want Erik as Praetor. If Jonas is willing to support the repeal of the Charter amendments, I just wonder why he supported them in the first place? I suppose that if he supported such a repeal, I wouldn't cry if he won the Praetorship again, but I still support Erik.

[Andreas the Wise]

Er, you keep saying Jonas isn't critically reflecting on his role (and yes, he is saying he supports the original move, because, as we know, he and Jake both dislike the economic voting system, and in that sense think they're doing what's best for the Landsraad) ... but I haven't seen anywhere you actually try and explain to him again what the role should be. It's all very well to say "you should be doing it differently," - it'd be nice if you actually made a post explaining how it should be done and what factors should be considered. It'd probably be useful for future Praetor's too.

Apologies if you have done so and I just missed it in the flood of posts when I got back.

Also apologies if I'm not meant to be speaking here. But I had to say this to Mike somewhere and this seemed the current active topic.

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

Actually...

http://shireroth.kuroshiro.net/forum/vi ... f=1&t=9734

[Andreas the Wise]

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

You're welcome!

[Prodigy Almighty]

I suppose I'll just open the Diet to foreign diplomats concerning this order of business. As usual, they are still restricted to ONLY this topic, but I suppose we'll let lots of people weigh in on this considering where this discussion is headed.

[Erik Mortis]

You have RULES in Yardistan? wow.. lot has changed...

[Jess]

WTF? I support Jonas!

[Jonas]

"If Jonas is willing to get the Charter to the way it was before the crazy edits, I say Yardistan supports him in his role as Praetor."

In fact, I dislike changing the Charter. But I had various reasons for what I did, and I'm reasonably happy with the results.


Oh yes. I have my own evil plans!

If Jonas is willing to support the repeal of the Charter amendments, I just wonder why he supported them in the first place?

There are a lot of people, including Erik and me, who support something and after it change their minds.


Now I just need to make Prodigy, Benkern and Jess Praetor and I have succeeded in my task.

[Erik Mortis]

What?

[Jonas]

What?

What?

[Erik Mortis]

Now I just need to make Prodigy, Benkern and Jess Praetor and I have succeeded in my task.

That....

[Jonas]

Now I just need to make Prodigy, Benkern and Jess Praetor and I have succeeded in my task.

That....

They need to annex the Praetorship.


EVIL PLAN #1869.

[Jacobus Loki]

I need to catch up on things, but as of now, Dutch Jonas has my support. I agree with benkern. Erik either needs to be Kaiser, or let his creation spin as it will.

I know this is hard for him.

[Erik Mortis]

"Erik either needs to be Kaiser, or let his creation spin as it will."

I try! But then people fuck up the document that let's me leave things alone...

[Jacobus Loki]

Sigh.

[Erik Mortis]

Exactly.