Map of Awesome

[Malliki Tosha]

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Another reason to raise the minimum voting age to thirty.

[Malliki Tosha]

Or institute a maximum voting age of 29.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

We don't want the US to become like Scandinavia just yet.

[Daniel Farewell]

Hey! What's wrong with Scandinavia?

[Malliki Tosha]

We don't want the US to become like Scandinavia just yet.

Well, people apparently do.

[Erik Mortis]

Wouldn't this make more sense in the SHRINE OF CONTROVERSY!

[Daniel Farewell]

Local activity is better for Brookshire than national activity

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Remember the 20 year old liberals of today are going to become the 40 year old conservatives of tomorrow.

[Malliki Tosha]

Yeah, you can believe that if it makes you feel better.

[Daniel Farewell]

How do you define "liberal" and "conservative" by your book, Aryez. Don't mean to stamp on your feet or anything, I'm genuinely interested.

[Malliki Tosha]

I BAR THE CONSERVATIVE v. LIBERAL DISCUSSION IN MY BARONY! Go to Antica if you want to read about it.

[Daniel Farewell]

Boo. I might just overrule that. Unless you link me to that discussion :P

[Malliki Tosha]

I can't be bothered. And unless you want another rebelling barony, you'll do no such thing.

[Daniel Farewell]

Boo.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

I'll post it.

We have many of these long and detailed political and philosophical discussions in Antica. Scott joins those sometimes too. There's a pretty good one between Scott and myself here in Shireroth in the Multi-Temple (Arya) (http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 88#p139188).

The most recent one took place in a poll started by Vasroe:

http://www.nafticon.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1621

I quote the parts that show my views:

...Nonetheless, I disagree with certain aspects of the conservative movement. I do not adhere to their monocultural, Christian, mostly white vision of the world and their emphasis on war and spreading American ways of government/American culture throughout the world. I strongly believe that every country is entitled to make its own laws and customs based on its interests and traditions without the interference and commentary of the rest of the world and that "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" is a good idea, so we shouldn't expect to turn the rest of the world into mini-Americas. I also value the arts, music, and philosophy, many things many conservatives dismiss. Furthermore, I am against the wanton destruction of the environment. Finally, although I see capitalism as a good thing and government regulation as a bad thing, I do concede that sometimes it is in a nation's interest to skew the free market, like China continues to benefit by artificially keeping its currency devalued.

I would call myself firmly conservative though on orders relating to crime and punishment, social values, family values, religio-philosophical values, social structure, economic values, view of history, and "traditionalist" when it comes to political ideas. That means a variety of things because I believe certain forms of government are better for different people at different times and the one that traditionally works best/longest is the correct one for that country. The United States would fare well under a libertarian government, Europe under liberal despotism (the mixture of some rights and continued aristocratic privilege that characterized it in the 19th century and propelled it to world dominance), the Middle East under Islamic law, whether as an Islamic Republic or Monarchy, and China under authoritarianism of some sort.

My belief is that morality is in fact objective and not subjective. Just as the universe is founded on physical and mathematical principles, a moral principle is built into the Universe. Therefore, humans can objectively determine morality. Morality is based on the principle of the Universe. This principle is manifested as gravity and light, and within individual souls as the compass of righteousness. Consequently, morality is just a matter of finding and then sticking to the path, which is best expressed in religious, philosophical, literary, and historical works.

I would call myself a pragmatic traditionalist. I like the continuation of old things but I realize that we can't rigidly cling to something that doesn't work. There must be hundreds of similar statements made by me strewn around Antica.

As for how I classify political views, I made this in Antica a while back.

During the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, a variety of ideologies originated in political thought, all of which had different conceptions of how to govern man. The main ones will be briefly described in the context of freedom; what these ideologies believe is freedom and how to achieve it. Therefore, the goal of all of these ideologies is equal to their conception of freedom.

Liberalism:
1. Agents: Individuals
2. Obstacle: Any power that prevents individual choice and freedom or prevents such things only minimally.
3. Goal: For individuals to live their lives as they choose in order to lead fulfilling, meaningfully lives.
Note: An extreme version of this ideology is Anarchy.

Conservatism:
1. Agents: Interconnected individuals who form a social fabric.
2. Obstacle: Extremist ideologies, rapid change (revolution instead of evolution), threats to order and stability.
3. Goal: Stability, conservation of what is good, order.
Note: This ideology is not necessarily opposed to freedoms, republicanism, and certain economic “justice,” in contrast to traditionalism. However, believes in the slow and thoughtful change, and not change for the sake of change; essentially the change of the bad and preservation of the good.

Socialism:
1. Agents: the people, more specially, the working people.
2. Obstacle: concentration of wealth, capitalism, inequality.
3. Goal: Socio-economic equality.
Note: An extreme version of this ideology is Communism.

Traditionalism:
1. Agents: traditional, mostly non-democratic power. Often monarchs, nobles, and churches.
2. Obstacle: the “mob,” challenges to power.
3. Maintaining traditions and power.

Theocratic Government:
1. Agent: believers.
2. Obstacle: hindrances to creating a society in line with belief and those who promote such ideologies.
3. Goal: Society in line with belief and doctrine.

Nationalism:
1. Agents: the nation, state, or race.
2. Obstacles: nations, states, or races that stand in the way of the glory and power of the state, nation, or race.
3. Goal: The glory and power of the state, nation, or race.
Note: In its extreme forms, this ideology has become Fascism and Nazism.

In modern times, some aspects of liberalism and socialism have fused to form the modern liberal movement. Much of the modern conservative movement is based on the fusion of liberalism and conservatism. Of course, all three ideologies still also exist in their pure forms. The other three ideologies (traditionalism, theocratic government, and nationalism) are not as widely followed today, although they have some appeal in a variety of countries, such as theocracy in Iran.

Based on my scheme, I favor traditionalism not conservatism. In fact, I dislike conservatives in the US quite a lot. They're all about preserving capitalism. I'm not a socialist, but capitalism does need some discipline. I favor traditionalism.

[Malliki Tosha]

I banned this discussion here.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Move it to the Shrine then.

[Malliki Tosha]

I won't. Start a new thread there.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12531

[Erik Mortis]

I told you this belonged in the Shrine to start with...