Shireroth

Well well, here we are, finally, in Shireroth... Our own little niche... Let's not get too cozy, since they're moving to phpBB...Anyway! Let's get organized, shall we?*prepares stuff for later post or edit of this one*Oh yes, and while I'm preparing and you're thinking of stuff and posting it, take a look at this and come up with some ideas for that, too. Edited by: Delphi Augustus at: 12/27/05 16:59

Its too nice for a Shirerithian website ejen ranti taicardainre (Lachlan Powers)The Grand Commonwealth - Aerlig - MNN - Treesia - mncentre - EIFA - Lemuria

Shut up ejen! Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

I'll take a compliment when I get one. Thanks!*brings thread back on-topic*

Ok! We have a basic sub-government set up within the Duchy consisting of a Duke and a legislature. Duke > legislature, but both are required to amend the charter and allow new counties. That's about the gist of it.

Now, there were a bunch of ideas previously thrown around regarding where we should go from here, and it might be appropriate to start working with them as to get things moving.

I don't suppose any of those ideas were mine?

Why, yes they were in fact! Care to briefly bullet a few of them for discussion?

Eh, I dunno.

Probably.

OK, one of my ideas was that the Chamber of Counts should have some sort of veto power over the decisions of the Duke or Barons, which Delphi and I both sort of rejected. Discuss as you like, but I can't remember the rest of my ideas, so there. Anyhow, the Chamber of Counts thing was my idea. In a way, I'm the Thomas Jefferson of the Duchy of Antica. As Mean Bean would say (that is, if he were still alive--I had him killed earlier today), "LIKE THAT, BITCHES????!!"

Ok! We've put this off long enough. Let's get down to the whole constitutional engineering thing. In what manner do we want to fashion our Duchy's government?

I'm particularly partial to something that looks like Dinarchialism... but that's just me...

Although I thought we already had the government of the duchy worked out, I'll present a few of my ideas.

* The non-voting counts of this Duchy have little effective say in the government of Shireroth as a whole. Sure, there's the Front Gate, but no one really takes much from that. So, I propose that, since we have two barons, the following system be implemented:
Every month, the positions of "Voting Baron" and "Chamber Baron" will alternate between the two barons. The voting baron may still vote as he pleases, but the Chamber Baron must vote in the Landsraad according to the will of the Chamber, of which, of course, he is a part. This will foster a sense of equality in Antica, as we had in the Dinarchy.

* The Chamber of Counts ought to be able to overturn Ducal decrees, with a 2/3 vote.

* Chamber resolutions and Ducal decrees ought to be considered to have the same legal force.

I still have a few ideas brewing, but I'll wait for more people to post here.

I think part of this whole phase should be working towards a government that we will want to stand on once we're gone from Shireroth. In that, I think we should look to incorprorate some elements of Dinarchialism. It was a damn good system and had an integral part in a nation that remained strong for over two years. The Dinarchy of Antica fell, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from some of the flaws and rebuild it.

Now, creating a Dinarchial system in line with our external structure should be an interesting task, but perhaps it should be modified a bit to fit within the bounds of a Duchy rather than an independent nation. We have this issue of Landsraad voting (which, for the moment, I'm banned from anyway). We also have to work out the power balance between the Dinarchs and the Chamber of Counts, and then (although this is a lot to chew), consider how we will keep as much of this sytem as possible when we add in bureaucratic positions later on.

As to Baldwin's points, I like the idea of the Barons havnig power; this is, after all, a feudal system, I don't think we should rest entirely heavily on that, because it will be gone in due time. I think perhaps we should seek an alternate way to underscore their importance. I mean, perhaps we should just let them have their Landsraad votes. But that idea of having some of the votes subject to popular will is interesting. Perhaps I can cede the rest of my votes to such a cause (maybe).

Well, it's just a suggestion. As far as a system somewhat resembling Dinarchialism: we have two barons, we had two dinarchs. Perhaps you could give the barons powers similar to those of the dinarchs of old, but place them under the authority of a higher official (yourself), who would later resume the same position after our secession. In the resurrected Antica, we would have two dinarchs, who would be nominal heads of government with veto and decree power, but you would have the power to nullify any decision of theirs, thus making them little more than figureheads. You would be considered to have the same authority as the Antican Senate; you could make decress (they could overturn them); you can veto (they can overturn that, though I suggest limiting that somewhat) As for the Chancellor and the Cabinet, they would resume their old positions, only under your authority.

Or maybe, you could retain the Dinarchs, but simply make one (yourself) senior to the other, with the power to overturn any of his decrees (without him being able to do anything about it) as well as the power to veto acts of the Senate.