Well, well, well...

[Gryphon Avocatio]

I see my signature holds true...well, not the colours bit, but you get the idea. Anyway, I'm here because I have a need to defend my honor and to slap Bill around a little. There was some controversy a few weeks ago regarding the County of Yardistan and whether or not I should get to be count. To put it plainly, Bill said that I was disloyal to Shireroth and that I should not receive the title.Yes, that's right. I, who was an active and participating citizen more than 4 years, who has filled many positions, written many laws, and contributed to the culture and fabric of this nation, am disloyal because I left and went on a permanent LOA so that I could better attend to my life in the real world where all of what I just said doesn't matter at all. I, who continues to contribute information to the Wiki, who is still willing to contribute to the nation when I am asked, and who still shares in his concern about this place, am disloyal.I am not "deserving" of the land of Yardistan, Bill. My years of making it into a coherent place with its own culture and building it up from nothingness are not important. Obviously, I haven't contributed to Yardistan "in years," and my service to the imperial government during that time aren't valid either. My activity is all that matters.Of course, if that makes me disloyal and shows that I don't care about Shireroth, than what makes you so f---ing special? Where do you come from, calling me disloyal? If you contributed half of what I have to Shireroth, than maybe you would be in a position to do so, but you haven't. As evidenced by the post in the Kaiser's court, you obviously still think you are somehow better than me in some way grand enough to belittle me in front of the nation I helped build (behind my back, no less).And don't you read the laws, Bill? Imperial Decree 200 clearly states that proven citizens become counts and are granted a parcel of land. Given the fact that I never emigrated and the above list of things I have done and continue to do, I don't think there is any legitimate argument against giving me the land. Not that this is a problem anymore, but seriously, if you are going to argue over something, get your facts straight.So, Bill, SHUT THE FUCK UP. If I ever hear you call me disloyal again, I will fly back east I shove my foot up your ass. HEY EVERYONE! NICK'S GONE! LET'S CHANGE ALL THE LAWS AND THE FORUM COLORS WHILE WE STILL CAN! - Scott

[UEC]

I'de like to see that.. can I fly back east with you? hehe E. Metzler (UEC)Count of Monty CriscoFounder of the MCS"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSJoin Shireroth

[Sebastien Alexandre]

I can't afford the flight... so send me a home-made post card... and make this young man happy, eh?

[Funky Wombat]

What a worthwhile and measured thread this is. Truly it is an exemplar of what Shireroth can hope to achieve when we consider things in a measured and logical way instead of flying off the handle and attacking people in public discussion fora in a way that's sure to cause hurt and insult to people who haven't chosen to leave the micronation despite various other hurts and insults directed their way. I applaud the calm and reserve shown by Gryphon Avocatio, and hope we will see it many times in the future.*sarcasm detector explodes, showering all assembled in shrapnel* Eoinsy

[Bill3000]

I'll reply when you make a more mature post, Nick. Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of TelikosCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'No, you've changed too, Bill. Instead of being the fragmented, annoying and immature 16-year-old, you've graduated to being a well-spoken, annoying and immature 19-year-old. Congratulations.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[TonerMan]

Accually.. his post was very mature... if not a bit grumpy.. it's us being immature... (Bte: I am just being silly.) Holy Warrior of NeeCommanding General of the Y.A.C.

[Harvey the Blue]

In an effort to promote evil and angry outbursts from mostly retired micronationalists that want to stir up trouble, I have prepared the following form to make ranting easier and more efficient. Simply fill in the blanks. IÂ’ve included some suggestions for possible values for those who are REALLY in a hurry.I know some of you thought I was retired, but IÂ’ve only been gone _____ {a week, a short time, a very short time, 3 hours, barely any time at all} and I have been watching these forums ____ {every day, 3 times a day, 20 times a day} while not logged in so I know all about whatÂ’s going on around here. And I have to say that these recent changes ____ {highly, greatly, murderously} displease me.I see this as largely a move by ___ {Bill, Bill Dusch, Rakesh, Locke, Bill3000} to undermine our glorious ___ {cultural, historical, evil} history and replace it with a system largely designed to ___ {insult, spite, castrate} me. There are absolutely no reasons for this change at all! The ___ {minor, negligible, unimportant} problems with ____ {the Landsraad, the Kaisership, the GC} do not warrant this kind of extreme action!Of course my opinion on this issue matters! Need I remind you all that I was responsible for _____ {the naming of a now inactive ministry, choosing the font size, coming up with a duchy idea while drunk}? I have never been more insulted by this move!In the name of ___ {God, Loki, the stars above, my uncle Jim} change this back immediately!Hope it helps. Harvey SteffkeSai'Kar's Memories LiveJournal - ranting about Shirerothian issues since fall 2004.

[Osman Shahanshah]

Harvey I am impressed.

[david northworthy beckfor]

I look forward to a chance to use it!

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Wow, Harvey, I like it. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[AngelGuardian93]

Another reason I love him. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Funky Wombat]

Dave, both being fully in possession of our reason, and being fairly easy-going drunks (well I know I am, and I think you are), I don't think we'll ever have the opportunity. *mournful sigh* Eoinsy

[JacobusRexetImp]

Nick, don't feel bad. I usually end up as an outlaw and worse Come to beautiful Lac Glacei, stay for the Winter carnival, go to the spa.(Jacobus annexes Nick's bad mood for Sanctuary Haven.)

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Question, Bill: How am I being immature?

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Question, Bill: How am I being immature?

I second that one. His anger in that post I think was rightly justified.. since Bill slandered him when he thought Gryphon was gone....

::ready's briefcase::
Court, anyone?

[Bill3000]

Oh, please. Let's not start this again, Oz - We're not in Elwynn, and that would be incredibly frivilous to begin with, something that screams of the old days when Erik and John abused the judical system in Jasonia and the UAS over similar reasons.

Quite simple, really - other than dregding up an issue that has been taken care of already that I am not willing to talk about anymore, the insult toward me when I had previously just said that I do not want people addressing to me that way. Really, I'm not going to take everyone's abuse.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Are you suggesting then, my fine Bill, that I am supposed to take your abuse? Seems awfully unfair to me.

Anyway, the issue of whether or not I ought to be count is not the issue at all. I don't want you or anybody else slandering me behind my back. This obviously isn't political because you personally attacked me, which doesn't get you anymore power or anything. You did it out of spite. I don't care if you don't want people "addressing to [sic]" you that way. If you are going to treat me the way you did then be prepared for the animosity to be returned.

And that thing about me shoving my foot up your ass still stands.

May the the Brothers of Metal forgive thee.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Still too full of yourself to even come close to apologizing for defaming me? Or am I picking on poor little Bill too much?

[UEC]

"when Erik and John abused the judical system in Jasonia"

....Bill.. that was you.. not me who abused the Judicial system in Jasonia.... Remember.. you banned me cause I got manic one night and made a bunch of random ass posts... so you railroaded me through the courts on trumped up charges of Spamming.. and.. as Judge.. you ruled against me.. thus... my anger and hatred of Jasonia began...

[Bill3000]

....Bill.. that was you.. not me who abused the Judicial system in Jasonia.... Remember.. you banned me cause I got manic one night and made a bunch of random ass posts... so you railroaded me through the courts on trumped up charges of Spamming.. and.. as Judge.. you ruled against me.. thus... my anger and hatred of Jasonia began...

I'm talking about after that, actually. Namely, your abuse of the non-citizen's bill of rights, and your threats to sue me. I was not High Judge forever, and the incidents IU am talking about were way beyond that one incident. I have an example of it in the UAS:

http://p088.ezboard.com/fapollorepublic ... D=16.topic

I can't do any such thing in Jasonia, obviously, since the forums are wiped, but you and John had done this all of the time in Jasonia after the time of the UAS, leading up to Jason's resignation. You did abuse your rights, and you were a friggin non-citizen who shouldn't have posted there in the first place. Let's not forget that we could not ban any people without a vote; the vote to ban JDS from the country led to an international incident thanks to Scott.

So yes, it was your fault, and incredibly ironic that you are no longer a proponent of Democracy when you had taken advantage and abused democracy to its fullest in Jasonia.

Now, Nick, if you really want me to reply, here it is.

Simply put, it was not meant to purely be towards you. For any inactive citizen, I would have done the same. I have precedent over this attitude - in particular, the argument over Zary and the disbandment of Goldshire. It is an attitude that I have gotten partially from Everquest, in which the only thing that can prove loyalty is one's current activity within the team, and it is something that I believe. Erik said it himself that in micronations, the past doesn't matter - only the present and what you are doing. By loyalty I mean the dedication to a nation - simply put, if you are not active, you are not dedicated to the nation. Regardless of your works in the past, or anyone else in a similar position, I would have felt the same way, because I feel that land shouldn't be a simple trophy, although I would have in retrospect felt that encouraging the preservity of Yardistan might have been a good compromise. (Similar to how we encourage people to not completely change cultures of a particular county if said culture already exists.)

So yes, it is immature that you insult me out of the blue when I wasn't aiming anything in particular towarsd you. I feel that one is disloyal when they can no longer care about the political fabric in a micronation, regardless if they feel if they are part of the nation when they abandon it for other purposes. That isn't something that is worth you inanely saying " SHUT THE FUCK UP. If I ever hear you call me disloyal again, I will fly back east I shove my foot up your ass.", something that I would here from someone younger than me, such as Ozarka, not someone of your age.

[osmose1000]

Although it was kind of immature for Nick to freak out at you after he had already said that he didn't care about the situation, I disagree that loyalty should be based on one's current activity in the nation - certainly I would be a bit insulted if someone called me unloyal to Shireroth because I left - I left because I realised that I was too obsessed with the nation and it was hurting me. I still hold Shireroth as the greatest nation on Micras, I just know that rejoining at this time wouldn't do any good for me.

At the end of the day, though, giving Nick the county just ensures that Yardistan will stagnate without an active count, instead of giving it a chance to prosper. But Nick and Erik are too scared that a newbie might, heaven forbid, do something that doesn't fit their visions - they'd rather something die than change for what they think is the worse.