Decisions, Decisions

[Jacobus Loki]

It is no secret how I feel about the way Shireroth is going. The Duchies were killed, the Landsraad is becoming a rubber stamp that Hoxha in his glory would have been proud to call his own, and the Kaiseress has dropped all sense of decorum and become a tyrannical quasi-jerk.

A flood of "reform" legislation is ripping away, one by one, all of the things that make the country fun, replacing them with taxes and laws that require a lawyer or someone with an awful lot of time on their hands to be able to wade through and interpret.

Fun and creativity are being driven out, replaced by "procedures", and did I mention taxes?

All in all, it sucks.

So why don't I just follow Ryan out the door? Well, that option always remains. But for now, I intend to go wander about in Hallucination, work on the wiki, and do what I can to ignore the Imperial Government and all the suck-ation that that has come to stand for.

The tendency is to walk out, and let the ruination continue unmentioned, but those who care will have to be around when the ruinators have run their course, and the time comes to make Shireroth a place to be proud of again.

My loyalty I pledge to Dutch Jonas, and to a future that I may never see.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I hear you - I'm thinking pretty heavily of leaving, myself. But I told myself I'd always wait a week after getting that feeling, to make sure it wasn't a spur of the moment thing, and so far that's been good advice and kept me around.

Also, you know what's the worst thing? Worse than all of those offenses you mentioned above?

That yellow color for Kildare. MY EYES! THEY BURN!

[Jacobus Loki]

That yellow color for Kildare. MY EYES! THEY BURN!

Mwahahaha! The plan works!

[Daniel Farewell]

If Scott leaves, I leave.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

...why?

[Icebreaker]

YEAH ME TOO, IF SCOTT LEAVES THERE'S JUST NO POINT

[Jacobus Loki]

...because if Erik is the Founder, you are the heart and soul of the place.

In remembrance of the Parliament of Audentior, before whom all mortals trembled!

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Uh oh, I think I just started the micronational equivalent of a suicide pact.

[Daniel Farewell]

Why would you want to leave, Scott?

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Drama like what happened yesterday with Mike and CJ, plus a feeling that the community is becoming too troll-intensive, plus boredom.

And what's keeping me around are nifty things like Nick's language project and the possibility of a new forum style, not to mention all the cool non-troll people I get to hang out with.

[Daniel Farewell]

Sorry to hear about your feelings on clashes and trolls. The clashes I can't do much about. We all have our persoanlities here, we try to... we get on our nerves ocne in a while. And the trolls, that's just Aster and Icebreaker, right? :-P

[Harvey Steffke]

Yeah if Scott leaves I'm gone. Screw that noise.

Drama like what happened yesterday with Mike and CJ, plus a feeling that the community is becoming too troll-intensive, plus boredom

No offense, but this was the logical conclusion of your (well, not exclusively your, but you sure seem to encourage it) campaign to make micronations less about politics and more about everyone getting to know eachother. You say "troll," I say "personality conflict." Turns out not everyone wants to hold hands and sing campfire songs when they are forced to deal with everyone's weird quirks.

Nick's language project was a farce anyway. It was obvious from day 1 that guy wasn't going to deliver. I'm currently in the process of trying to hijack and publically nationalize the idea so, if you want to get involved in work on the language, now is a pretty good time to be collecting your thoughts on the concept.

[Jadie Kelb]

Wow...I come back and people take a micronational suicide pact....:-/

[Jadie Kelb]

EDIT: Browser messed up....accidentally double-posted. Sorry!

[CJ Miller]

Wow, I come back and people doublepost....:-/

[Harvey Steffke]

Do you now see why I hate this guy!

[Icebreaker]

And the trolls, that's just Aster and Icebreaker, right? :-P

SIR YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

...OR AT LEAST DON'T LUMP ME IN WITH AMATEURS.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Nick's language project was a farce anyway. It was obvious from day 1 that guy wasn't going to deliver. I'm currently in the process of trying to hijack and publically nationalize the idea so, if you want to get involved in work on the language, now is a pretty good time to be collecting your thoughts on the concept.

I still kinda hope he might deliver. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the only two people even remotely associated with micronations whom I trust to do this right are Nick and Bill (and for some inexplicable reason I feel like I should add Shyriath, though I have no evidence that he has any expertise). Weren't you totally opposed to this whole thing from the get-go, anyway?

[Harvey Steffke]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not really a conlanger at heart. But there is enough interest in a public, group project on a national language that it's sort of interesting and would be nice to see get going, which is why the constant delays and excuses are wearing on my patience. If there's one thing I can't stand in this hobby it's being told we have to wait an indefinite amount of time for something that may or may not ever happen.

[CJ Miller]

If Præta Sxiróþes is nationalized, I would be working on it a lot. Mayhap I should have a management position?

[Jacobus Loki]

And the trolls, that's just Aster and Icebreaker, right?

I thought I was der Ubertroll!?

[Erik Mortis]

Language by committee == crap.

He said from the get go it would take time, and that he didn't have much, and that it might take patience by you all. Apparently, you can't give that. Maybe you should try talking to him first? By the middle of this month he'll be done with Master's program stuff. My guess is he'll be free to work again then.

And honestly, I'd much rather wait for nick, even if it takes another year, then to see what can be slapped together in a month by others.



And Jake.. get over yourself? I'm seriously not sure what else to say. If you leave, then just leave, don't turn it into a drama fest for everyone to say how much they love you and don't want you to go or something. Or a not so subtle way to rag on those doing things. You constantly post this "moral dilemma" threads which are really just your way to make a fuss about things people have said "cut it out", about, but still make it seem like you did. Didn't you post one of these last week?

As for the Landsraad, I see NOTHING unusual about the laws being passed right now. Fixes here and there, some power for the Praetor, giving land to Scott, removing some old law about mascots that was ignored the day it was made... and oh.. taxes. one small tax. We wanted an economy, we have to have taxes. It's not like it's a tax on posting, it's a tax on land. and VERY small tax on land. House Mortis owes 125€...TOTAL. I can pay that myself on the houses behalf.

I'm not so keen on the increase in personality conflicts, but that's Micronations. We'd buried them all for so long, no wonder they are finally coming out. Years of 'stop fighitng, let's all just be friends' has only built up hostility and animosity. We can't all get along. So Scott, deal? This is all a far cry from the fueds of say.. Bill and me? Jason and JDS...etc. I don't see people trying to rip nations apart to get at each other...etc. Hell, even Locke and I had a MUCH bigger conflict going then Anything I see now. I see annoyance.. that's about it. Not actual hatred. (feelings toward CJ aside).

The only real drama I see is honestly that made by those complaining about drama and threatening to Rage-Quit. So... yeah. ..life goes on and so will Shireroth.

[Harvey Steffke]

And honestly, I'd much rather wait for nick, even if it takes another year, then to see what can be slapped together in a month by others.

Why? What is WITH this mentality? It's not just from you; it's the whole darn hobby. We've all aged about a decade and we've forgotten how to just create things without worrying if they're perfect. It never mattered if the end result was all that great. We don't get a medal if our conlang can make a grown man weep. Nobody is going to pronounce most of these words. It was the doing of things that is important in this hobby; the art of creation, to have some silly words to put under an image of a flag or to have a little gibberish saying that we can say to eachother at meetings because it means hello in a national language.

I WOULD like to see some people slap something together in a month. At least then we'd have a word for "hello" or "island" or any number of a million words we'd like to say. If the people that have a strong background in conlanging ever want to make a contribution, they can join right in.

But no. We're all adults now and we've had a few tastes of failure and so we don't even want to try if we don't think it will be the work of an expert. So we sit around and wait for the planets to align and other people to have the perfect situation that never comes. And all the while we try nothing and do nothing and snipe at eachother out of boredom to relieve the tedium and complain nothing happens.

Man I am sick of it.

Is there nowhere in this hobby where people do stuff just because they're driven to do things and they don't worry about how professional it will seem? Have we all gotten old and crusty in our mid-twenties?

[Andreas the Wise]

I'll add my name to the "doesn't like great conflicts" boat. Perhaps I'm too used to Gralus where we all get along OOC; but the increased arguing for the sake of arguing over the last year or so has got annoying. If it starts spilling beyond the Shrine of Controversy too much again, "deal" for me will be retreating to Kildare.

[Jonas]

I'll add my name to the "doesn't like great conflicts" boat. Perhaps I'm too used to Gralus where we all get along OOC; but the increased arguing for the sake of arguing over the last year or so has got annoying. If it starts spilling beyond the Shrine of Controversy too much again, "deal" for me will be retreating to Kildare.

Good old Kildare...



If everyone leaves... I can take power... and bring Duchies back... but not without changing the borders first, of course... Kildare shall rule Shirekeep and the coasts... it will be unconquerable!
Err... forget what I said.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I WOULD like to see some people slap something together in a month. At least then we'd have a word for "hello" or "island" or any number of a million words we'd like to say. If the people that have a strong background in conlanging ever want to make a contribution, they can join right in.

Well, part of it for me is that once Shireroth does something, it tends to never ever get changed no matter how desperately it needs to be. Take the forum colors for example, which we're finally starting to work on after five years (the last change was around the Aurefiction era, and it was too little too late). Or the flag, which is apparently so traditional that now it can never be changed no matter what.

I'd rather wait six months to get something really good, and then have something really good for the next ten years, than start right now, get something pretty bad, and be forced to use something pretty bad for the next ten years with no hope of ever fixing it.

We've got embarrassingly bad forums, an embarrassingly bad flag, a legal system that was thrown together piecemeal over ten years and still has weird stuff like the rights for chickens and the mastakater that we're trying to get rid of, and a House system half the country loathes with the burning power of a thousand suns. I fail to see where you're getting this "Everyone in Shireroth tries to do everything perfect" complaint. I don't see anything perfect, and I'd like to have at least one perfect thing so we can wave it in the Anticans' stuck-up faces

[Shyriath]

(I apologize for lack of quoting; I'm posting from a mobile device whose copy/paste functions are unclear to me)

On conlanging expertise; I tinker with languages from time to time. Mostly that was privately, but in a Shirerithian context I did work on a Benacian language for a while, though most of what was visible here consisted of a few words.

I feel I should point out, for what it's worth, that I still do not believe that the flag should be reverted to the old one. I cleaned it up because I feel it should still see use as the Kaiserial banner; and as far as I am aware, the new flag is still the official flag.

The bill removing the Mastakater provision of the lawbook has passed, so that part's done. I'm a little surprised that the chicken laws are still extant, since I could've sworn they were abolished ages ago, but I'm actually sort of glad; at least a bit of remaining humor would be nice.

And opposition to the House system... Really? that strong? I knew a lot of people were angry about some of the effects, like land distribution and so on, but I didn't think the very concept itself was getting that much opposition...