From me....

[Gryphon Avocatio]

*takes a deep breath*Ok...time for theories.Since the majority of the nation is in close proximity, it has in essence crossed the bridge from Internet-based micronation to micronation. Pretty much, that faction of the nation has little need for the internet portion than it once required. Other than communication with citizens that are away from the, shall we say, homeland, the board has little active purpose to those who are living in close proximity. Since these people are together and able to communicate more actively, their ideas can develop not only in tandem but more rapidly since communication can continue even after one is away from the computer. Also, a more personal element can develop making it harder to become more politically objective. Or rather, I think that people shall be more worried about hurting their friends' feelings. Also, as many prominant Micronationalists have postulated, having everybody in one place makes that group become exclusive. In theory, it estranges others in the nation who do not live in close proximity. And from my observations, I believe this to be the case. The Sonoma group is extremely strong and control the nation. I do not think that they could have such success if they did not know each other personally. They also seem to be politically flavourless. I don't see a huge buch of variation in political ideology between individuals. Also, you will notice that historically Erik and I have a lot of the same ideas and have been notorious compatriots of ideology...and since he has gone...my ideas are becoming more, well, I guess i could call it liberal.okay...i think i'm done... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[ErosDarkstar]

Yeah, welcome to the Duchy of Grenache... I mean, Goldshire Eros Darkstar al Sylvas ij Qel'AthasLast Son of Night"The Great are Only Great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" -Stirner"There never was a saint with red hair" -Russian Proverb

[Scott Alexander]

I have to differ with Nick on this. Oddly, of the Sonoma group, only Erik, Jadie, and sometimes Eros are really active politically. The vast majority of the Sonomans are non-nobles and non-ministers and thus, while they certainly contribute to the nation on a cultural and activity level and are a vital part of us being who we are, they can't be said to have any massive political influence. Most of the Dukes and Barons are non-Sonomans, Nick, who's probably the third most powerful person here is a non-Sonoman, some of the most important ministries like Foreign, Immigration, and Defense, are held by non-Sonomans, et cetera. I have never in my time in this nation been unaware of some development, even the most minor, and had Erik or someone tell me "Oh, we decided that among ourselves at Sonoma". Sometimes I think the Shirerithians at Sonoma never talk to one another about micronations at all. I would NOT call this a non-Internet micronation -- yet. While having so many people at Sonoma adds an interesting touch and an opportunity for occasional really fun conventions, one could hardly consider it the defining feature of a micronation where people from California to Finland to New Zealand vote on the same bill within hours of its being proposed and where non-Sonomans face virtually no obstacles in getting positions as high or higher as any their Sonoman counterparts can obtain. Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter. - Longchenpa

[Stone Jackabar]

"never use a b00mist as a diplomat*how many of us non-political are b00mists?most of us. i was never involved in any politics i couldn't squirm my way out of, Erik had to threaten me with vile, nasty things to get me to vote. we are not all politicians. we are Citizens. the everyman and we don't care."welcome to the fuck-it party."i think what the micronational world needs is less meaningless titles (says the guy with like 6 i know) and more just everyday people, otherwise you have idiotic little power squabbles for no good reason.there is nothign wrong with positionless citizens. As for the sonoma-centered culture....GO OUT AND BRING IN YOUR IRL FRIENDS!! bring in your roomate, best friend, guys in the gamer club!!! don't just sit there and worry!GO OUT AND GET MORE that you know!!and THATS my soapbox YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Scott Alexander]

I hope you didn't get the wrong impression from my post. I entirely agree with you. The only reason I was commenting on the Sonomans lack of titles was to prove to Nick that the Sonomans didn't "control" the nation in any sense. Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter. - Longchenpa

[Stone Jackabar]

yeah, my rant wasn't directed at you scott, sorry if it offended you YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Kaiseress Jadie]

I will say that Erik and I will discuss micronational politics..but then we sort of copy our conversation onto the board...to involve everyone else. I really don't think this country has a problem with having most of the countryi n Sonoma...it is just the way it happens to be. I personally feel close to Scott and Greg..and I am slowly getting to know Joseph and Nick better. I don't talk to Mattlore much...and I talk to Mari from time to time....so I consider that pretty good. I don't know where I was going with this but then again..I am tired..it is2 in the morning.. Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Eriana Moon]

As on of said sonomians I have to say that I rarely talk about Shireroth off line. And when I do it’s just to say wow there is a lot going on or you should go reed what I wrote. I am still relatively new here but I have to say that I think the only thing that has come from us living so close together is more activity because we do turn to each other and say, “you have to go read what’s going on” Ok that’s my piece for now.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

hmm...I'll get back to you guys on this...bit too tired to write a good reply on this, but I will say in response to scott that you do not need to be a noble to make stuff happen in this nation...citizens are a great support basis... -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*ponders*Actually come to think of it..the only person I really discuss Shireroth with outside this board would be...Erik....but that is because I am trying to better understand my position and what Shireroth was founded on..yadda yadda yadda.Nick I totally agree with you thought Citizens have a huge impact on this country's sucess. Not just nobles Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Gman Russell]

I am the only person in the Souteast of the US who posts in Shireroth... man thats weird... lol

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*blink blink*You are from the Southeast? I didn't think you were that far away... Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Gman Russell]

Oh yeah, im isolated from the rest of Shireroth *laughs*Charlotte, NC.......

[Gryphon Avocatio]

San José...heh...i guess that's relatively close to sonoma...from my own observation, i have noticed that the sonomans act more alike than the rest (with the exception of Erik...who knows what he's doing? :P). They tend to support each other and i think that has something to do with the fact that they seem, at least to me, to be a strong party in the nation. Now, I wasn't saying that you guys do talk about micronations...I was saying that you posess the ability to do so, and minimally you are in contact with each other much more often and so know each other better. Irregardless (i know that's not a real word, get off my back) of whether you discuss micronational politics off the board, there is still a stronger bond present in that group that cannot exist as well between other members. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

Is that a bad thing? I mean....really?? Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Gman Russell]

Only when it stops him from taking over

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*laughs*That sounds about right....is that true Nick? Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Gryphon Avocatio]

That didn't stop me from taking over...i couldn't have taken over any way.I have two theories that have yet to be proven or supported fully.1) The added personal contact of close proximation could lead to a group afraid to be politically objective, especially if those in proximation are friends. I have seen this problem, most recently in my critique of Jadie where I was attacked for what I said. Ultimately, we wind up with a group that wants to appease each other as friends and they are willing to give up some obectivity to do so.2) Proximation could also lead to possible ostracisation of members who are not close together. Though I haven't seen any blatant show of this, as i said earlier, the sonoman's have a large group and thus a large support basis. That support gives them more of a pull on the nation. Somebody said that I may be the third most powerful person in Shireroth, but I'm still nothing in the face of people who can work together to work against me. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*sighs*I don't understand the first part....are you saying that none of us are willing to stand up for ourselves if it goes against the rest of the Sonomans?*is confused* Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Stone Jackabar]

which only shows how little he really knows of all of us. if we don't like jd's position, we tell her nick its very simple. Same with Erik. we can discuss things in the real world and avoid making an ass out of ourselves on the board.truth is you just don't trust us 'cause you don't know us well enough right? YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Eriana Moon]

I have no problem disagreein gwith anyone.... One has to have there own opinion and folow it for live, even a vertual one, to be interesting...

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*shrugs*I have no clue.....what the heck he means Kaiseress Jadie IThe Elf-Cat Kaiseress of Shireroth

[Austi Scot]

I have my own opinion and am not swayed by the group in Shireroth that knows me in real life – ----------- oh wait, that’s noone.Well, I’m like the 500th most powerful person in Shireroth and I haven’t let it go to my head.Actually, I have the same theory as Nick – it’s called group think ~um, can I coin that phrase ? – no, I can’t – why – cuz it’s taught in all the universities all over? Heck, knew I heard it somewhere.Oh well, I’m a victim of group think here too. I’m going along with the “Almight Kaiseress” thing when I really think the power of the Kaiseress should be limited and the place should more of a democracy somehow. I’m putting the feudal aspect of this place into the econsim because it is the way of this nation – oh wait, that can be fun. I kinda do like that but wish there were some more political aspects of it with the intrigue of killing off Nobility – or is that here already? Ah well, I’ve said too much of what I really think already. Don’t listen to this – forget you saw it … sorryAusti ScotLeader: Halluci nation

[Solitary Poet 8]

As for your first point, Nick, I had my own reason for standing in favor of Jadie. (and I'm not just talking about being a bard for royalty) In my eyes, Jadie had barely been ruling Kaiseress for very long. She was Kaiseress during Meskan's reign, but he had a greater say than she did. I felt that Jadie deserved more time in order to do something with her power, and stood against you for the time to allow her to do so. Simple as that. No focus on Sonoma loyalties, even though I do consider them friends. It was about fairness. Birrrrrrrrrrrd Maaaaaaaaan!!!!!~The Solitary Poet of Goldshire

[Austi Scot]

As for me – I’m likely to join any uprising I think will win.Austi ScotMinister of Visions

[Gryphon Avocatio]

You are all beginning to frustrate me.Note that these ideas are theories. I don't necesarily believe these to be true. They are possiblities. Also, stop bringing my stupid rebellion into this. It has nothing to do with this! I'm getting sick of everybody saying "well, I think this cuz of the rebellion," and whatnot.More Explication:The first theory...how do i explain this?...well...Let me start by saying that i don't think that this is going to be an exceding problem in shireroth. More or less, people are more likely to accept ideas that they are familiar with or from others that they are familar with. Think of it thisway, ignoring political parties and any predispostions towards one candidate or the other. If some random man were to walk up to you on the street and say "Vote for Issa, because blah-blah-blah" and name a whole bunch of good convincing reasons, and than have a good friend walk up and say "Vote for Gallager because yadda-yadda-yadda," and offers an equally convincing argument, who are you more likely to listen to? Random Stranger or Good Friend? I would be willing to bet you would listen to your friend...Now, moving away from the california recall...(damn, I'm guilty of excluding non-californians now too...well..sorry....it's all the news has been forever) and back to our shirerothian factions, it would make sense that following the above analogy you would be more likely to listen to those that you know than those others that post here (leading to ostracisation...but i'll come to that later). Pretty much, other than to erik and james, I haven't met any other citizens that are currently in the nation. We are strangers. That puts me at an extreme disadvantage, because I don't truly know anybody...the only reason i have pull in the nation is because i've been here a long time and have done a lot of integral work here. I don't believe that i am third in power here. There are others here with far more ability to do stuff other than Jadie and Erik. The only for me to have any majour pull on the nation would be for me to become Kaiser.Hence, the theory of ostracisation. People who don't know other cits IRL are automatcially more aloof than those who do. There is no way around this. I will say in the nation's defence that there are minimal problems with this, and i don't think it needs to be explained. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[Stone Jackabar]

if you don't like our briniging this up then why did you start this discussion? YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Gryphon Avocatio]

You wanted me to explain myself, did you not? and thus I have. Why you all think this has something to do with me taking over the nation, i have no idea. This has actually come from me getting shouted at for being critical. -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike

[Stone Jackabar]

*reads through*i don't think anybody really asked for you to explain yourself as much as you liked putting your statements out for us to rip apart and show the inner futility of it. I saw no one asking for you to bring up a chaos therory on how we're all doomed to inactivity due to the fact that many of us know each other irl. YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Gryphon Avocatio]

I suggested something...people misunderstood and were confused, so I went further in my discussion of the idea...which lead to more necesary description...Stone, if you are going to tear apart my reasoning, than why not tell me why i am wrong rather than telling me that I am wrong? -Gryphon Avocatio- Lord Governor and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Research and Education, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! - Lover of Llamas "You're intense and driven. That can lead to a lot of good things. It can also lead to high blood pressure and a closing of the arteries." -Mr. Mathews -- "I think that people who drive Hummers are clueless, and that they just have enough money to advertise it." -Peter Camejo -- "Skanky-Deutch-Ho-Bag!!" -Mike