New constitution discussion.

[Stone Jackabar]

*sits back*i kinda always liked the evil empire........disagreements and the way this country has run has always made it an interesting place to be.....delvenus is losing posts largely i beleive because of perpetual peace......humans thrive on conflict........i thik the time during delvenus's greates posts were 1. during my rampage2. during the menelmecar dramasee th point? we need the chaos to survive YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Ryan]

So we need chaos to survive? Ok...*drives his T-90 over Stone, squishing him into a big, red gooey pile of cudah*That good enough for you, Kaiseress? Or should I run him over again, just to make sure?*evil grin*

[Mezzastromix]

I'm sorry, I freak out when I hear the words "direct democracy." I mean, the United States of America, supposed bastion of democracy, isn't even a direct democracy. The USA was founded to be a Republic, where people would elect representatives that would do their own thing. The USA did not (and still doesn't) elect the president, or the majority of the government. Why? Because, in the effort of trying to please everyone, you end up pleasing no-one, and everyone gets disgruntled and leaves.Instead, we know the system we have works. So don't change it drastically. Evolve it. I'm sure everyone here knows the difference between changing and evolving...at least I hope so. If not, go talk to Darwin. Shapeshifter Extraordinaire, and Emissary of Fax Celestis

[UEC]

All I saw, was people talking about opening the Landsraad up to EVERYONE... THat is a Major change... And would destroy the nation.. This nation has always changed.. yes.. but slowly.. it .. no.. it doesn't change... EVER.. it evolves.. slowly.. over time. and unofficially.. Than when we see the unofficial changes work, the Kaiser (me) would ussually go and accually add them to the Constitution. The Constition is a Reflection of what the nation is, not a blueprint. The constitution has always been that, when we accually had one. The reason Shireroth survives is because it moves slowly, never rushing into things like other nations, just to die because of the rapid change. I think people are beginning to forget the point of Shireroth.. We are NOT a government simulation. Government is NOT the focus of this nation. Community is. Shireroth has always been a close knit community. Focus on that. Since that is rapidly dieing.. much to my dismay.... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Stone Jackabar]

look, erik you know better than anyone posting comes in waves.....myself i am probably reponsable for maybe 25 posts in a sigle day sometimesbut i will also sometimes got three days without it.....and arguments back people away from posting........but i will submit what i have noticed........this seems to be caused byu people who, though are great people, have faith in their fellow man......a prospect erik, fax, and i do not share..... YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[UEC]

Qouis? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Stone Jackabar]

fear my odd cicular logic!!!! YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[UEC]

I might if I understood it. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

I just asked for everybody's opinions and I said I'd consider them, I never said I'd put them into action. I only wanted to hear everybody's opinion, I think I'm allowed to do that without riots and revolts :-) May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Rakesh86]

Quote:Dictatorships. Baracao, Attera, Delvenus, Shireroth, and Babkha are all good examples of that.Excuse me, Babkha is a dictatorship? I think you have your fact ALL wrong.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

*reads through the whole thread again**shakes head*Why has everybody just gone violently crazy all of a sudden?I call myself Shirerithian, and I thought others would call me Shirerithian too. Isn't it normal to dislike some things and try to change them? What I wanted to do in this thread was to see what most people disliked so that I could see how I could maybe change it for the better. Or did I get it all wrong?Or is my job here just to let the nation run itself?I will not rant on this anymore, and I won't take this whole argument further ... Or was it an argument? ...*calm Aure* *calm Aure* *calm Aure**warm smile* Alright, any more suggestions? May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Mezzastromix]

I think you have a misconception of what the Kaiser position entails. You are not supposed to make everyone (or even a fraction of everyone) happy. You are supposed to make the nation work, even if that means alienating a few members of the populace. Your job is to ensure the safety and survival of this grand nation. If you can make people happy doing that, great! More power to you! But if not, then the survival of the nation comes first. Shapeshifter Extraordinaire, and Emissary of Fax Celestis

[Thomas G C]

Isn't the point of the nation to make people happy (by allowing them to have fun) anyway? So isn't your logic back-to-front? Read CITIZENIn Hanover,His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH

[UEC]

well.. since that's the logic I used through out the entire course of the nation... and I've never had any large number of unhappy people, in fact, I'de say Shireroth has always been kinda.. happy.. so I'de say.. no.If your goal is to make people happy, than your nation collapses fast. People (I know I know, I still love you people), are dumb, we don't know what we really want, we say we do, but that's just what we THINK we want, and what we want, is not always what we need. (I do include myself in this big generalization btw so don't hate me)....Now, if the goal of the nation is to survive, people will be happy at the fact it is surviving. And in the course of doing what needs to be done, as long as you keep an eye on the moral of your people, you'll do fine. Just do things slowly, and the people will adjust, and be happy. It is perhaps that "Backtofront" logic you speak of that has kept this nation alive. I as a simple cit recognize some unfavorable things might need to be done to maintain the nation. (Key word, maintain). And I accept this, because I know as long as Shireroth survives, I'll have a place in micronations, especially since it is the only place for me. That sounded odd.. anyhoo..."Or is my job here just to let the nation run itself?" In a way, Yes. Like I've said. The Kaiser simply maintains the nation, making small course corrections from time to time, and taking care of random things that come up. As I have also said too, the constition is a Reflection of the nation. So it should reflect what is ALREADY being done, but hasn't been formally written down. For a long while we never had one. When it was finally written by... Gaelen II(?) it simply reflected the nation that was already in place, and whenever it was updated, same thing. The nation evolves on it's own, through changes in people, in culture, in ways of handling things, in small laws building up over time, through ministers trying things.. THrough nobles trying things... ect.Am I making sense? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[UEC]

And could I please ask all the foreign nationals to stay out of this thread? (as in don't post). This is a purely Shirerithian matter, and as much as I like you all, and I do.. really, this is our nation not yours. (or is my isolationalist side showing again?) E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Harvey the Blue]

Quote:Excuse me, Babkha is a dictatorship? I think you have your fact ALL wrong.Yes, he does. Some of us know better. Sorry about that one.I kind of see the Kaiser position (any any real monarchy position) as more of an emergency response team then an actual decision maker. If there is trouble, talk to the Kaiser. If something needs quick action, the Kaiser steps in. But as for the rest of the nation... let it flow as it will.That is NOT to say however, that the Kaiser should stay out of things. If the Kaiser has an idea, sure, out with it. But wide-sweeping change on a massive scale can quickly lead to nasty things.Any any event, I would like to echo Erik's comment. While the opinion of non-citizens is welcome, the constitution should be hammered out by Shirerothians alone, any any comment from an outsider would inevitably lead off topic. I hope you understand. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[Kaiseress Aure I]

Yes, funnily I guess I do have a misconception of what I'm supposed to do as kaiseress. I thought the idea was "make people happy and the nation will follow"... Ok then, now I know that my purpose is to be. Interesting. I never thought of it that way. So much about being the main person in the nation *giggles*... I feel as though I'm becoming some sort of puppet. Ah well. I'll live, it's not the end of the world... Just slight disillusion, I'll get over it.So you guys think a new constitution is unnessessary? Ok then, I can deal with that. Well *cough* good job everybody... Keep up the "ruling yourself" thing, apparently you're hella good at it *laughs* May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Gman Russell]

*deleted due to second thoughts* Edited by: Gman Russell at: 7/15/03 7:56 pm

[Scott Alexander]

*runs in breathing heavily* Okay, sorry I'm late for the argu...errr...discussion.One. As foreign minister I have to ask that you not ask the foreigners not to participate. We can always use more advice. Worst comes to worst we ignore it, but no need to alienate them.Two. The Kaiseress *is* the Kaiseress. We can offer her suggestions, even strong suggestions, or if we want to we can revolt, but we do NOT go around commanding her in any way. If her ideology for the nation is different from our ideology of the nation, she's the Kaiseress, so her ideology is at LEAST as valid as ours. If we want to tell her what tradition is, so be it, but it's also tradition for the Kaiser to be able to change tradition. I don't like this either. We can't both insist that this is a feudal system and then say that the person at the top of the feudal system doesn't have the power to change that fact, or else we're misunderstanding the definition of feudalism. It's like that Chilean dictator who said "I am going to introduce democracy to this nation, and if anyone is against that, I will crush them", only the other way 'round.On the other hand, I agree with everyone who says that more democracy would not necessarily have a good effect on the nation. And to say that the happiness of the people is the supreme goal of the nation is going further than democracy into a mobocracy...I'm not sure what the goal is, or if we have a goal (proly not) but I don't think that's it. Otherwise we might as well be somewhere like old Menelmacar where a bunch of new people can come in and then change the nation however the heck they want and no one can do anything about it.

[UEC]

I've always had the goal of Survival as the Goal of the nation... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Mezzastromix]

Noone said anything about the Kaiser role not being important. It is, in fact, the most important role in the nation, as it should be. However, the Kaiser role has also changed from supreme dictator to moderator of issues and trailblazer. So instead of ruling your minions with an iron fist, you are leading your minions through uncharted micronational territory.Lead on, dear Kaiseress. Shapeshifter Extraordinaire, and Emissary of Fax Celestis

[UEC]

Also.. a bit of a phrase I made up a while back... the Kaiser rules through loyalty.. and the Loyalty comes from friendship. "Loyalty through friendship". It worked for me. and other Kaisers. Just my random comment for the minute.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

I must agree with Scott on this one, foreigners should be allowed to express their opinions, though this doesn't directly concern tham, ideas never hurt anyone. May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Thomas G C]

Excellent policy, Your Imperial Majesty. More inclusivity for friendly foreigners! Read CITIZENIn Hanover,His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH

[Gryphon the Pure]

Actually, Ideas do hurt people. Granted, the people hurt by Ideas are generally the people who put forth the Ideas, but hey. Just to clarify tho, I think we covered the whole direct democracy topic in the Locke rebellion... or something like that... Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

[UEC]

I don't mind ideas.. but when people start telling us we HAVE to change our nation.. I get a lil... unpleased.... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

Just on a lil sidenote... Did I ever say anything about direct democracy? Those were just responses... May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[UEC]

Did we ever say you did? We just reacted to the notion... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon the Pure]

Y'know, erik, you have a point with the nation evolving with the people. I think we should get out the old constitution, and plink out a few things that should be in there... not working on revamping the government at all, just editing what we have such that it will conform to our processes.(Just to get this back on the track of productivity) Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

[UEC]

That's what is ussually done... Though not till we have collected enough changes, that we know work to be worth adding.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.