Baronial Decree 11
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Baronial Decree 11
As the final day of the Musica Treaty comes to a close, I hearby withdraw the BUI support from the treaty, thus making Musica part of Yardistan. Sorry Mike, it was a stupid decision in the first place. I've said it on EBR, that we would pull the hell out of there as soon as possible. I suggest you change your residence if you wish to remain Duke of Brookshire.
Door mijn hand,
Jess, Baron of the United Isles of Naudia'Diva, Florencia, Amity, Miroth, So Sara, and Yardistan, oh and now Musica.
Door mijn hand,
Jess, Baron of the United Isles of Naudia'Diva, Florencia, Amity, Miroth, So Sara, and Yardistan, oh and now Musica.
- Kaiser Reynardine I
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
If I'm not mistaken, there is still a week until 150ASC after 22nd Biternionsmoon...
December 22nd is the date you're looking for...
December 22nd is the date you're looking for...
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
treaty came into effect the 17th right?
Anyway, yeah consider it cancelled after whenever.
Anyway, yeah consider it cancelled after whenever.
- Kaiser Reynardine I
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Actually, the wording said it goes into affect on Biternionsmoon 22nd or when the Landsraad approves it, whichever is later. It was ly passed by the Landsraad on July 29th, which is Biternionsmoon 25th. 150 years ASC (or 150 days) later, is December 25th.
I don't have any problems with this, since it was a completely legal maneuver, but I'm just making sure it is carried out in accordance with the treaty.
I don't have any problems with this, since it was a completely legal maneuver, but I'm just making sure it is carried out in accordance with the treaty.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
22nd seems right.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
How disappointing.
Re: Baronial Decree 11
And uneffectful. The deal was made between the Duke of Yardistan and the Duke of Brookshire. Nowhere was the Baron of the UI mentioned. The contracting parties were the Dukes and only the Dukes can cancel the deal.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
- b3n|<3r|\|
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Then let the Duke cancel the Deal... Prodigy, wanna weigh in?
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
- Kaiser Reynardine I
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Well, the treaty did require the signature of the Baron of the UI, if I remember correctly...Mike Fors wrote:And uneffectful. The deal was made between the Duke of Yardistan and the Duke of Brookshire. Nowhere was the Baron of the UI mentioned. The contracting parties were the Dukes and only the Dukes can cancel the deal.
Re: Baronial Decree 11
Be that as it may, the text of the deal makes it clearly something between the duchies, and not requiring the approval of the baron. I'll await Prodigy's input.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Where is the Contract? (Treaties between Duchies are illegal I think)
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
I think I'll let it stand for now. I guess we want Musica back sometime, but it need not be immediate.
Boris Ivanovich Serov ronToketi VI
Executor of Chelkran Kesh
King of Kagan conToketi
Baron of Absentia, Yardistan
Executor of Chelkran Kesh
King of Kagan conToketi
Baron of Absentia, Yardistan
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
We've grown fond of having back under our control and a part of our culture.
It used to be ours you know. Letifer II (or was it I) took control of it during the Mog rebellion. Or it might have been some other rebellion.
It used to be ours you know. Letifer II (or was it I) took control of it during the Mog rebellion. Or it might have been some other rebellion.
- Scott of Hyperborea
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
I recommend the Duke of Yardistan accede to the Baron's wishes on this point.
Back when Duke Yvain was trying to get Brookshire up and running again, he asked Baron Jess for Musica and its two active citizens. Baron Jess, for no reason other than the goodness of his heart, assented to that, even though it meant he lost two citizens and a city. A whole bunch of people were against it, but because of Baron Jess' steadfast support, it eventually went through and Brookshire was able to complete its revitalization plan.
I don't know why Jess changed his mind. However, because of the sacrifice he put in during the original treaty, he's earned the right to have his opinion on this matter respected. Why should a Baron agree to a lease next time if he has to worry that the territories he's leasing are never going to get returned to him?
Of course, the best solution would be for Baron Jess to acknowledge that Mike (and Bill if he's even around) prefer it in Brookshire and support the treaty's continuation. He could even ask for some sort of compensation, which Brookshire (or myself) would probably be happy to give him. But if he won't do that, he deserves to get the land back in honor of the sacrifice he made giving it up in the first place.
Back when Duke Yvain was trying to get Brookshire up and running again, he asked Baron Jess for Musica and its two active citizens. Baron Jess, for no reason other than the goodness of his heart, assented to that, even though it meant he lost two citizens and a city. A whole bunch of people were against it, but because of Baron Jess' steadfast support, it eventually went through and Brookshire was able to complete its revitalization plan.
I don't know why Jess changed his mind. However, because of the sacrifice he put in during the original treaty, he's earned the right to have his opinion on this matter respected. Why should a Baron agree to a lease next time if he has to worry that the territories he's leasing are never going to get returned to him?
Of course, the best solution would be for Baron Jess to acknowledge that Mike (and Bill if he's even around) prefer it in Brookshire and support the treaty's continuation. He could even ask for some sort of compensation, which Brookshire (or myself) would probably be happy to give him. But if he won't do that, he deserves to get the land back in honor of the sacrifice he made giving it up in the first place.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
What did Bill have to do with this?
- Scott of Hyperborea
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Bill Bekkenhuis of Musica.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Scott of Hyperborea wrote:I recommend the Duke of Yardistan accede to the Baron's wishes on this point.
Back when Duke Yvain was trying to get Brookshire up and running again, he asked Baron Jess for Musica and its two active citizens. Baron Jess, for no reason other than the goodness of his heart, assented to that, even though it meant he lost two citizens and a city. A whole bunch of people were against it, but because of Baron Jess' steadfast support, it eventually went through and Brookshire was able to complete its revitalization plan.
I don't know why Jess changed his mind. However, because of the sacrifice he put in during the original treaty, he's earned the right to have his opinion on this matter respected. Why should a Baron agree to a lease next time if he has to worry that the territories he's leasing are never going to get returned to him?*
Of course, the best solution would be for Baron Jess to acknowledge that Mike (and Bill if he's even around) prefer it in Brookshire and support the treaty's continuation. He could even ask for some sort of compensation, which Brookshire (or myself) would probably be happy to give him. But if he won't do that, he deserves to get the land back in honor of the sacrifice he made giving it up in the first place.
*Answer: I changed my mind because it was stupid in the first place.
Sorry Mike, but I want Musica back, and I have the power to do that.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
It was a wonderful thing you did in the first place. You helped Brookshire immensely. They might still be the "no one lives there nothing happens" Duchy if not for you and that treaty you signed.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Maybe could I get the title, "Saviour of Brookshire"?
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
I have to agree with Mike though on the legal interpretation of the Treaty though...
The phrase: "either party", plus the numerous mentions of the Duchies, and non-other indicates this was between the Duchies, thus they are the parties involved. The Duke of Yardistan would have to cancel the Treaty on behalf of his Baron for it to be terminated.
The phrase: "either party", plus the numerous mentions of the Duchies, and non-other indicates this was between the Duchies, thus they are the parties involved. The Duke of Yardistan would have to cancel the Treaty on behalf of his Baron for it to be terminated.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
No, it was my understanding that I could cancel it. If we don't get Musica back, something bad will happen.
- Scott of Hyperborea
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
As the person who wrote the treaty:
It was originally intended to be between the Duke of Brookshire and the Duke of Yardistan. That's why it says things like "either party". The Duke of Yardistan (Benkern) decreed that he would not assent to it unless the appropriate lesser nobles (Baron of UI and Count of Musica) also assented to it. So I got their permission and added space at the end for their signatures without changing the text of the treaty. So it's a treaty between four parties that reads like a treaty between two parties. There was no intention to say whether or not the Baron and Count had permission to cancel the treaty because they just weren't taken into account in the treaty's first draft. I dunno where that leaves us legally.
It was originally intended to be between the Duke of Brookshire and the Duke of Yardistan. That's why it says things like "either party". The Duke of Yardistan (Benkern) decreed that he would not assent to it unless the appropriate lesser nobles (Baron of UI and Count of Musica) also assented to it. So I got their permission and added space at the end for their signatures without changing the text of the treaty. So it's a treaty between four parties that reads like a treaty between two parties. There was no intention to say whether or not the Baron and Count had permission to cancel the treaty because they just weren't taken into account in the treaty's first draft. I dunno where that leaves us legally.
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
If I was still in the Judex I'd read it as a document between Dukes, and leave it to them to ask their lessers if they want to cancel.
Re: Baronial Decree 11
I agree with Erik. If Prodigy says that the deal is cancelled, I'll consent to that. If he doesn't, I'll take it to the Kaiser to decide.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Re: Baronial Decree 11
You can't expect me to just hand over Musica. The treaty says that if there is any conflict, the parties agree to bring it before the Judex. I can't hear it, and the next arbiter is the Kaiser.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
- b3n|<3r|\|
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Here:
I believes the issue has been resolved.b3n|<3r|\| wrote:Do we have to get lawyery here? *sigh*
The Duchy of Yardistan agrees to lease Musica for 150 years.The Duchy of Yardistan agrees to lease the County of Musica to Brookshire for 150 ASC years. For the period of the lease, Brookshire will control its internal affairs, and its inhabitants will acquire Brookshirean citizenship.
At any time after 150 ASC years are over, either party may choose to cancel this treaty. If neither party chooses to do so, this treaty will remain in effect indefinitely. If the treaty is cancelled, the residents of the affected territories will become citizens of the Duchy to which their lands revert unless they formally choose to change their place of residence.
A lease that lasts 150 years lasts 150 years.
The treaty cancellation clauses no doubt refer to the other articles such as
which continues on after the 150 years because there is no mention of a time frame.The Dukes of Brookshire and Yardistan swear to treat all citizens in the affected areas fairly and humanely, and with the respect due to any other area of their territory
Summation:
Nee has been part of Brookshire and Musica part of Yardistan since 150 ASC after the Treaty was signed, whenever that was.
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
Re: Baronial Decree 11
The treaty hasn't been cancelled by either me or Prodigy. Therefore, the issue is not resolved. If we don't cancel the treaty after 150 ASC years, it continues indefinitely with Musica in Brookshire and Nee in Yardistan.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
All this would be solved if the Duke of Yardistan would say Yea or Nay to continuation of the Contract.
- Kaiser Reynardine I
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Re: Baronial Decree 11
Assuming he could be assed to comment...
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