Page 1 of 1
The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:38 am
by Shyriath
Members of the Landsraad,
Although we have had our disagreements with the Elwynnese, every good Shirerithian stands in shock and outrage at the recent deletion of the Ewynn fora. The malicious destruction of a micronation's messageboard is a heinous crime in our hobby, because it is an attack against that nation's history and culture, and against everything that that nation wishes to preserve from loss in the face of Time. Although the very newness of the Elwynnese board meant that there was less to lose, precisely the same attack on many other nations would have resulted in the loss of much more.
But more outrageous still is that the prime suspect for the deletion is one that the Elwynnese had counted among their own: Ardashir Khan, the Emir of Raspur. The Elwynnese have presented evidence to indicate that his was the account that was responsible for the deletion. Bad enough that they should be attacked so: but how much worse for it to come about through treachery! Such depravity should not go unpunished, and we should do all we can to see that justice is served.
The Emir has resigned his citizenship in Ashkenatza; in Elwynn he will no longer be welcome. But what of Babkha, where he has resided so long? Where, up until the very day of the deletion, he was Grand Vizier, and where it is presumed he still holds citizenship? Will his compatriots there try him for what he has done? If they will not, will they deliver him to those who will? The ancient Mango-Camel Pact has an article of extradition; do they still hold to the treaty?
Members of the Landsraad, I ask your assent to the following:
BE IT RESOLVED by the Landrsaad:
-That the micronationalist known as Ardashir Khan, or the Emir of Raspur, having been accused of the deletion of the message board of Elwynn, should stand trial on the charge of micronational terrorism;
-That the Judex of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth, by virtue of its long association with both Elwynn and the Emir of Raspur, be permitted to try him by the definition of micronational terrorism as detailed in Lawbook XII.L, not excluding the right of Elwynn or any other concerned entity to try him as well;
-That, should the Emir of Raspur be found guilty at trial, his banishment from the lands of Shireroth be made permanent, and that, by the grace of the Kaiser, the punishment of Non-Utterance be inflicted upon him, so that his name may not be spoken in Shireroth until the end of days, and that any other punishments appropriate to the law be carried out upon him;
-That, to the furtherance of these ends, the Imperial Government should inquire of the Imperial State of Babkha and its government whether they intend to permit the Emir of Raspur to remain a citizen of their realm and whether they would permit his extradition to Shireroth or any other entity wishing to place him on trial;
-That the Imperial Government might also, in seeking extradition, remind the Imperial State of Babkha of the Mango-Camel Pact that long bound our nations together, and ask if they still consider it valid and binding;
-That, should the Pact be considered still binding by both parties, the Imperial Government should invoke Article VII, which requires extradition by one party when an individual is being tried by the other party for a banishable offense;
-That, should the Pact be considered binding by both parties, the Imperial Government shall not pursue enforcement of Article V with respect to recognition of the Elwynnese secession unless and until negotiations with the Elwynnese are deemed unsuccessful.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:42 am
by CJ Miller
*takes gavel*
Four days for voting
*returns gavel*
AYE (1)
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:51 am
by Jonas
Even if they do not hold to the treaty, I hope that our friends in Babkha will strongly condemn the actions of Ardy. I'm very sad that it has come so far, Ardy has contributed much to the society and micronations. But we can't accept this action of him. I read in Elwynn that Babkha wasn't responsible for the deletion and Ryan, who has succeeded Ardy already condemned the attack. I'm curious if they will do more then just regretting the facts. Our Kaiser has shown His wisdom by considering (temporary) banishment (I'm not sure it has already been done, I think He waits for the Judex before making a final decision).
I'm supporting the thought of the proposal, I only hope that our Elwynnese friends don't misunderstand this as a way to interfere in their politics, which it of course isn't. I think they are as eager as us to avoid this to happen again. We need to show that this kind of things isn't appreciated.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:03 am
by Shyriath
Indeed. That's why I tried not to close the door on Elwynn holding their own trial (and why I included that last part of the resolution). After all, it wouldn't be the first time in history someone's been tried in multiple jurisdictions for the same crime...
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:23 pm
by Kaiser Ometeotl I
AYE.
As Kaiser I am fully prepared to enforce the provisions of this resolution.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:14 pm
by Falkner van der Sluijs
Aye
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:17 pm
by Jonas
Greater Audentior says AYE.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:42 pm
by Kaiser Ometeotl I
I'm going to change to Abstain at least on the matter of removal from utterance. It's kinda a hard punishment to enforce.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:04 pm
by CJ Miller
PROTIP: The technical term for the William !@#$%^& treatment is
damnatio memoriæ.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:07 pm
by Demon of Fides
Aye
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:42 am
by Jonas
CJ Miller wrote:PROTIP: The technical term for the William !@#$%^& treatment is
damnatio memoriæ.
I wonder... is that damnatio memoriæ also valid on the wiki?
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:50 am
by Demon of Fides
I don't like the idea of punishing someone for deleting stuff by deleting stuff... But on the other hand I'm in favour of rehabilitation over retribution.
SOCIALISM FTW!
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:08 am
by Jonas
Demon of Fides wrote:I don't like the idea of punishing someone for deleting stuff by deleting stuff... But on the other hand I'm in favour of rehabilitation over retribution.
SOCIALISM FTW!
It's not really deleting stuff, is it? It would just be that if we talk about him his name is replaced by something as
HE WHOSE NAME CAN'T BE SAID.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:23 am
by Demon of Fides
Presumable the filter would apply retroactively (I can't think of an alternative), in which case there would be deletion.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:01 pm
by Shyriath
I wonder... is that damnatio memoriæ also valid on the wiki?
J*smer's name is on the wiki, so I would assume not. So, possibly, that could satisfy the requirement of preserving history. (Incidentally, damnatio memoriæ is indeed the proper historical term, but I used non-utterance because that's what the Lawbook has always called it. It sounds pretty cool that way too, admit it.
)
Nonetheless, had I thought about the retroactiveness of that treatment, I probably would not have included it. A dislike for the mauling of historical documentation is part of why I despise board deletion in the first place, and however angry I am at Ardy, I'm not angry enough to want to knowingly engage in that kind of behavior. And, too, I would like to modify the language of the rest of that provision; the practical effect as far as exile wold be the same, but it allows for the possibility that it could be lifted. If he really, really, REALLY shows he deserves it (and if we believed him).
If I may, then, I beg the Prætor and Landsraad to amend the resolution to read as follows (changed sections in bold):
BE IT RESOLVED by the Landrsaad:
-That the micronationalist known as Ardashir Khan, or the Emir of Raspur, having been accused of the deletion of the message board of Elwynn, should stand trial on the charge of micronational terrorism;
-That the Judex of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth, by virtue of its long association with both Elwynn and the Emir of Raspur, be permitted to try him by the definition of micronational terrorism as detailed in Lawbook XII.L, not excluding the right of Elwynn or any other concerned entity to try him as well;
-That, should the Emir of Raspur be found guilty at trial, his banishment from the lands of Shireroth be extended indefinitely, unless and until by word and deed he has sufficiently redeemed himself that the Imperial Government should see fit to once more permit him within the bounds of Shireroth;
-That, to the furtherance of these ends, the Imperial Government should inquire of the Imperial State of Babkha and its government whether they intend to permit the Emir of Raspur to remain a citizen of their realm and whether they would permit his extradition to Shireroth or any other entity wishing to place him on trial;
-That the Imperial Government might also, in seeking extradition, remind the Imperial State of Babkha of the Mango-Camel Pact that long bound our nations together, and ask if they still consider it valid and binding;
-That, should the Pact be considered still binding by both parties, the Imperial Government should invoke Article VII, which requires extradition by one party when an individual is being tried by the other party for a banishable offense;
-That, should the Pact be considered binding by both parties, the Imperial Government shall not pursue enforcement of Article V with respect to recognition of the Elwynnese secession unless and until negotiations with the Elwynnese are deemed unsuccessful.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:40 pm
by Jacobus Loki
-That, should the Emir of Raspur be found guilty at trial, his banishment from the lands of Shireroth be extended indefinitely, unless and until by word and deed he has sufficiently redeemed himself that the Imperial Government should see fit to once more permit him within the bounds of Shireroth;
As one in ancient days accused of multiple no-no's (some few of which I actually did) it would not have been possible for me to support the original resolution. This version is much better.
His crime is great. At least his crime matches his stature, as well as his punishment ought. But I hold out hope for his redemption. He committed a great evil, but micras is a smaller place without him.
Regretfully, (sigh) Aye, on the revised version only.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:13 pm
by Falkner van der Sluijs
I suppose the original punishment was a tad severe. Aye
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:49 am
by Jonas
Aye.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:27 pm
by Shyriath
Aye.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:31 am
by Kaiser Ometeotl I
I am pleased by the severity, but that we aren't going overboard.. to much. Aye.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:50 pm
by Andreas the Wise
AYE to the amended form.
Re: The "For Great Justice" Resolution of 4073 ASC
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:23 pm
by CJ Miller
6-0-0, resolution passes
*bangs gavel*