Request for trial

Hypatia Agnesi · Post by **Hypatia Agnesi** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:47 pm

I am afraid that given the evidence presented, I cannot in good conscience find Delphi guilty. I have consulted with my resident computer expert who has explained more of the computer attack logistics (ie, how SQL injection attacks work), who has stated that he does not believe that there are any records kept with that sort of attack. Considering this and considering Sander's comments that he believed that the attack was by an obtained password, there does not really seem to be any kind of direct evidence available. I have not seen IP records or more than one incriminting conversation, and that was with the prosecuter!

I'm sorry Scott, although you are probably correct in pointing the finger at Delphi, I cannot convict him. Proving motive and ability is not solid evidence that he did it.

I hereby declare a mistrial.

Kaiser Alejian II · Post by **Kaiser Alejian II** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:38 am

Thank you Hypatia, for you fine work.

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:26 pm

What a completely retarded trial. This isn't "fine work", as all it will do is make Antica stop all relations with us.

Sir Ophiuchus · Post by **Sir Ophiuchus** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:40 pm

I really don't think Hypatia's to blame - she obviously did put in a huge amount of effort on this trial, despite RL difficulties.

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:47 pm

I'm not blaming just her, she has a point. I'm blaming everyone involved in this trial.

wildcolonial · Post by **wildcolonial** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:55 pm

The law shouldn't be a blunt political plaything, it must atleast give the illusion of being objective and fair, and it is not to make up for diplomatic failure. If you are to criticise anyone, it is not the court, the law or the honourable judge, but the public prosecutor, who will undoubtedly learn from this anyway.

I must come to Hypatia's defence; this is fine work. This is an important case for Shireroth, creating a number of precedents in regard to due process, court procedure, the rules of evidence and the verdict of a mistrial, among others. Vitally, a verdict of mistrial, I believe, would allow for a re-trial, would it not, when and if sufficient evidence can be found by the public prosecutor.

We have proven to Antica and Delphi that Shireroth is a nation which upholds due process of law, and did not unfarily convict Delphi on circumstantial evidence. It would seem rather silly if they end relations because of that.

Post by **Scott of Hyperborea** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:37 pm

I'm confused by your use of the term "mistrial". Isn't what you're saying that you're finding him innocent? Wouldn't a mistrial mean something went wrong with the trial and we have to do another? Do you want us to do another?

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:10 pm

Hypatia Agnesi wrote:I am afraid that given the evidence presented, I cannot in good conscience find Delphi guilty. I have consulted with my resident computer expert who has explained more of the computer attack logistics (ie, how SQL injection attacks work), who has stated that he does not believe that there are any records kept with that sort of attack.

Then what you are saying is that any Shirerothian can do this with the proper knowledge because there is no trail leading back to the perpetrator! This isn't right, at all. In this matter motive should be the only thing that matters, and we have a pretty damn good amount of motive here. Otherwise no one will be found guilty for a crime like this.

As well, we shouldn't have to wait if the accused does not show up. This will probably happen in a good number of trials, so something has to be done about this.

Conglacio · Post by **Conglacio** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:41 am

In this matter motive should be the only thing that matters, and we have a pretty damn good amount of motive here. Otherwise no one will be found guilty for a crime like this.

so you want us to find many people guilty in this case then? because there are many who would have motive

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:27 am

Conglacio wrote:
In this matter motive should be the only thing that matters, and we have a pretty damn good amount of motive here. Otherwise no one will be found guilty for a crime like this.
so you want us to find many people guilty in this case then? because there are many who would have motive

Really? Who? Who has the motive and the means to delete both Anticas?

Perhaps we should continue this in another thread.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:42 pm

Otherwise no one will be found guilty for a crime like this.

But the point is to meet justice for justice's sake, not for the sake of punishing someone. We want to punish a criminal who has been found guilty in all fairness, and not just slaughter a scapegoat. I'm nothat I agree with the verdict, or that I think Delphi is completely innocent, but a nation free of tyranny owes justice to all her citizens, regardless of how villainous the public may think they are.

Bill3000 · Post by **Bill3000** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:18 pm

I'm not saying that I agree with the verdict, or that I think Delphi is completely innocent, but a nation free of tyranny owes justice to all her citizens, regardless of how villainous the public may think they are.

Are you forgetting what nation we are in?

This is Shireroth. We have no rights, only priviledges in which our Kaiser can remove at any time.

Nick Foghorn Leghorn · Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:34 pm

Well, you're right about one thing. Antica is about to be very pissed off at you if the current trends continue.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:37 pm

God damn it, this is a mess, a plain simple mess! I've offered a somewhat workable solution, though I'm afraid for anyone to be happy, someone's head's going to have to roll! What a complete wreck! Antica threatening to cut off ties with Shireroth, certain folks claiming injustice...

Post by **Scott of Hyperborea** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:32 pm

I obviously would have preferred Delphi be found guilty. It would make things easier for all of us. But wildcolonial, whoever he is, is right. The point of having a court isn't to decide what's most politically convenient, it's to decide if there's enough evidence to convict someone. If Hypatia thinks there wasn't, that's her decision to make, and we should stand by it, as should Antica if they value the rule of law and human rights half as much as they claim to.

Of course, that doesn't mean we can't find a sneakier way to solve our Delphi problem, possibly related to him being gone for the past two months.

Hypatia Agnesi · Post by **Hypatia Agnesi** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:37 am

Ok, firstly, NO MORE DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD!!!!

Second, perhaps I should have said "not guilty" instead. If someone wants to take Delphi to trial again or appeal, it is up to the kaiser to deal with it. I applied for this post saying I would be fair first and foremost, and I was. Sure, outside of the trial, I'm pretty sure Delphi did do it. However, that is my speculation as a private citizen, and not my verdict based upon everything that was posted here. There were no computer logs, and no conversations saying things like "I'm going to destroy them" or "I just destroyed them!", etc., and that is just the way it is with this case. There simply was nothing proven beyond motive and ability. (And it is important to realize that saying someone is technically capable doesn't mean they had to have done it.)

Motive iss NOT enough to convict here, especially when the circumstantial evidence against Delphi was entirely composed of what people think of him and some of his previous actions, and when he did not even seek to deny that he had motive! I'm not saying Scott did a bad job prosecuting, just that, as he'd said before the trial started, that there was a distinct lack of any other evidence to present. I feel that this is a fact of how we conduct business in micronations, and we have to deal with trails that cannot be resolved satisfactorally. And if justice matters at all around here, a verdict that is not politically expedient will be just as acceptable as one that is not.

Now, get out of my thread. It's closed.

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