Statement from Elwynn

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Okey. I fixed the dotted lines on my map, I'll upload it later..

And as for the free port mentioned for the dam, I don't see that as that equitable. A city for a dam?

The dam is of considerable strategic importance, either Echo or Vijayanagara would represent an equitable trade. Accept or do without the dam. Your call.

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

Why is everything always "all or nothing" with you in negotiations?

[CJ Miller]

Gray areas are problematic. So are grey areas.

[Jonas]

Why is everything always "all or nothing" with you in negotiations?

We could use his diplomatic tactic... with Elwynn ending with 'nothing', of course...



Instead of handing over cities, we could assure the Elwynnese that they can use our river system (which should boast the local economy in southern Elwynn).

[Demon of Fides]

*facepalm* Is it a prerequisite of being Shierothian that you have to be bad at making concessions?

[Jonas]

*facepalm* Is it a prerequisite of being Shierothian that you have to be bad at making concessions?

I said 'could', not 'we will'...

Annexing a city in return for a dam isn't really fair, as we all know there aren't really much habitants on a dam.

[Demon of Fides]

Typical racism from non-magical countries! There could be a massive Nyad, Mermaid or Krynii population there and you're just ignoring it? Pah!

[Jonas]

Typical racism from non-magical countries! There could be a massive Nyad, Mermaid or Krynii population there and you're just ignoring it? Pah!

It's TRUE! I'm a RACIST when it comes to magical creatures!

Wait a moment... Shireroth has several counties where magic exists...

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

And I'm sure any that live at the dam have been long since terminated by the Khan...

[Aurangzeb Khan]

The dam is more useful than people, who are only human and hardly a scarce commodity unlike efficient hydroelectric power yielded by a vast and ancient infrastructure project. So it stands then, for the dam to be passed to Shireroth either Echo or Vijayanagara must be handed over. If you do not want to hand over either of those two locations then we will not concede control of the dam.

The price is non-negotiable, either the transfer is included or the matter is dropped.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Typical racism from non-magical countries! There could be a massive Nyad, Mermaid or Krynii population there and you're just ignoring it? Pah!

And I'm sure any that live at the dam have been long since terminated by the Khan...

In the most part. However the Naiads were retained for our recreation...

[CJ Miller]

Typical racism from non-magical countries! There could be a massive Nyad, Mermaid or Krynii population there and you're just ignoring it? Pah!

Not to mention nagas, elves, or dungeon masters.

[Jacobus Loki]

When the new technology grid is functioning, a hydro dam will be a museum piece. IMHO, enough of Shireroth has been "absconded with" already. Cape Farewell has ports at Caligae, and at Citivas Nova.

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

Fuck the dam. If you insist on continuing to play these "all or nothing" tactics, you will get nothing. From the very start this has been the tactics you have used. And now I'm fed up. Hell, I'm starting to reconsider this whole damn treaty... you have done nothing but "negotiate" it apparent bad faith.

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Seems to me the Elwynnese are being spoiled brats like they have been for a while.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Fuck the dam. If you insist on continuing to play these "all or nothing" tactics, you will get nothing. From the very start this has been the tactics you have used. And now I'm fed up. Hell, I'm starting to reconsider this whole damn treaty... you have done nothing but "negotiate" it apparent bad faith.

Have you, I enquire politely, taken leave of your senses?

We have offered considerable concessions in return for a fixed frontier, and you asked for something else in addition to that. We took your request on board and have stated the price. If accordingly you have a problem with that then the dam is not up for grabs, it really is that simple. If, following on from this, you wish to repudiate the common frontier we were prepared to agree to then we will resume our claim to the entirety of the former Duchy of Elwynn including Scott's Hyperborean realm.

Enmity is a stance we are comfortable with, although we had hoped for better from Shireroth, the grounds for our secession have once again been validated.

Seems to me the Elwynnese are being spoiled brats like they have been for a while.

It is a pleasure as always to learn of the opinions of that wannabe-paedophile 'furry' piece of shit commonly known as Corey but his contributions are, mercifully, redundant.

[Daniel Farewell]

Ardy,

I'd take back that personal statement, if I were you. Going personal on the Steward of the Imperial Republic is not the way forward for us.

Everyone,

On behalf of the Elwynnese Realm, I apologize for the hurting comments made by Aurangzeb Khan directed toward the Steward of the Imperial Republic.

[Jonas]

May I remind the Elwynnese representation that we're talking about cities with habitants who decided to stay loyal to the Imperial Republic? If Elwynn wants to be a democracy, which seems to be the intention, they are going the bad way: demanding cities will lead to the expulsion of several families or force them to be ruled by foreigners.
This is just a warning to our friends in the west. Think of the tragedy! Think of the children!

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

Nay, let your countryman show his true colors. It has become obvious the intent of these negotiations in the eyes of Aurangzeb Khan, and I suggest he be removed from this discussion lest he make your situation worse yet.

[Daniel Farewell]

Lord Asantelian of Kildare,

You know that I have nothing but the utmost affection for you, your person and the office you hold. If Aurangzeb Khan is no longer recognized as a delegate from the Elwynnese Realm, then all you have to do is to say so. If you continue to recognize him as the envoy from Eliria, he shall remain accredited to His Niftiness's Court.

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

I shall be so kind as to leave such business to the Kaiser himself. Save the possibility that he'd overrule me.

[Daniel Farewell]

Thank you, Lord Steward Kildare, for your swift response. I shall await the Kaiser.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

These dam negotiations have gone on too long. Tell the Elwynnese exactly where they can shove their dam concessions, sign the dam treaty, and tell their dam negotiators to go home.

[CJ Miller]

Or better yet, REANNEX THEM! MALARBOR DEMANDS IT!

[Andreas the Wise]

Enmity is a stance we are comfortable with, although we had hoped for better from Shireroth, the grounds for our secession have once again been validated.

I'd be fascinated to hear your justification for this. Yes, Erik got annoyed at your requests for another city in exchange for dam access, not very diplomatic, tsk tsk tsk. And yes, private Shirithian citizens have made the predictable pro-Shireroth-keeping-land comments, a real nation would stop their citizens messing up negotiations, tsk tsk tsk.

But moving beyond that minor surface stuff, your comment makes no sense to me. Sure, someone outside the whole thing might read the situation as that, but you and I have both been Shirithians for a long time and know a lot better. Shireroth isn't trying to 'steal land off Elwynn' because it's Elwynn. Shireroth would want to retain as much land as possible whoever seceded. In fact, it's only because it's Elwynn and that we have personal relations with all the people involved that these negotiations are being taken seriously at all. So on that front I see no validation for the grounds of your secession. "Ooh, Shireroth is treating us nicely and with much more respect than they'd treat any other secession movement; that justifies our secession."

Likewise, I still don't understand the grounds for your secession in the first place. Yeah, there were mumbled comments of "Oh, Elwynn has too many people" - but again, you and I both know that Shirithians do that whenever any Duchy gets bigger than all the others, and it wasn't anything personal. You can hardly make a case that the Kaiser was specifically targetting Elwynn to steal land from (that was obviously Kildare ). And at the time of secession, Elwynn was basically you and Daniel. It was inactive, not oppressed.

So, in short, can you please justify your statement that Shireroth's reaction to Elwynn's demands/requests (delete whichever is innapropriate) somehow justifies the grounds of your secession. I'm not seeing how, and I'd like to be enlightened.

(and if the opinions of a magic loving historian are considered mercifully redundant, consider also that I'm Lord General of Gralus and read the comments as a "Please Explain" notice from Gralus, if you think that adds more weight )

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

I'll get back to this when I'm not annoyed. I still think the Elwynn Secession was to take advantage of Ric and use his reputation and influence to steal lands for other nations. I think the whole thing stinks of non-sense and questionable dealings taking place in the chat. I respected Ric, and so I tried to take his concerns to heart and come to a conclusion and a way to solve the problem. It became clear real fast Elwynn had no intent to negotiate anything. I myself am tired of the farce.

I've been seeing what's become of Elwynn as an independent nation. It's a pitiful echo of what it once was. It's dead at best. I've seen the talk of mergers/commonwealths with other nations. How quickly it throws away this vaulted freedom. Elwynn faces no persecution no abuse while in Shireroth. It's claims to the contrary are bunk.

Since going "independent" I've only seen to manipulated by other nations obviously trying to gain it as a trophy, and it makes me sad to see it. Well, until I lost the ability to see any sign of government activity. Considering how Scott/Hyperborea seems to feel about Elwynn, should show how far it's fallen.

[Jacobus Loki]

Founding election = 3 whole votes.

[Jonas]

*Takes some placards and starts demonstrating.*

Enough with those foolish demands! Send the army and crush whatever is left of this farce!


Or perhaps better (and more serious), we should write our own proposal and they will have to take or leave it. It's more then clear that Elwynn is ruled by foreign powers, there is except for Daniel being around no reason to grant them independence (meh, they can proclaim it) or any land. So it's time we make demands and show them who's in charge.

(This was my pro-Shirerithian opinion and is in no way the official statement of any of the Shirerithian representatives )

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Well it has been fun pissing you wankers around but Elwynn has now shuffled off into oblivion. You can all have a reconciliation frot at your own convenience.

[Demon of Fides]

How disappointing. I was hoping we would get over our past differences, oh well.

If anyone in Elwynn wishes to continue micronationalism in this sector, I'm sure Shieroth will welcome you with open arms. The same invitation is extended in a somewhat more official capacity as Gralus.