On Lac Glacei

[Ryan]

No, you've changed too, Bill. Instead of being the fragmented, annoying and immature 16-year-old, you've graduated to being a well-spoken, annoying and immature 19-year-old.Congratulations.Quote:By the way, secession is illegal in Shireroth with the sole exception of if there is a treaty that permits it, and that is only if the Kaiser honors said treaty. Remember that the Kaiser has absolute power over all his subjects.What about Scott and Hyperborea then? Seems to me that there are a lot of biased exceptions in effect within the mechanisms of Shireroth. While Scott said he chooses not to exercise the right, he said he might if he had too and he still has that right nonetheless.If you want to get into nitty-gritty technicalities, we can bring it up that Lac Glacei and Cognito are the intellectual property of Jacobus since he invented them. Just as Tapfer, Ferien, Demesos and so forth are your creations and, thusly, your uncontested intellectual property. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.Edited by: WarVoid  at: 11/28/05 19:15

[Shyriath]

I suppose that now is my time to speak up. Jeez, holiday matters drag me away for a little while and all PRH breaks loose...My memory is as rusty as anyone's, if not more, but I can say with fair certainty that I was Kaiser when Greater Automatica was given to us. I don't much remember the details of the agreement now, but I can vouch for the fact that it was made, and that Ryan is not in fact making all this up. I'll have a look through the back posts if I have the time, but my best guess is that the treaty was lost to the EZAttack, since there's also a huge gap in the historical record right where all my Decrees were.But since I believe that the agreement was more toward the "protectorate" end of the scale than the "outright annexation" end, I'm afraid I have to put aside my own "keep it! KEEP IT!" instinct here and say that, if he asked for GA back, it would be right to give it to him.Now, Lac Glacei I can't talk about, because it's been Shirerithian since I joined. In real terms, it would disturb me more, but the history of the place seems more and omre arcane the more I try to understand it.

[JacobusRexetImp]

Quote-By the way, secession is illegal in Shireroth with the sole exception of if there is a treaty that permits it, and that is only if the Kaiser honors said treaty. Remember that the Kaiser has absolute power over all his subjects.Close quote. Regards,Jacobus

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Quote:My memory is as rusty as anyone's, if not more, but I can say with fair certainty that I was Kaiser when Greater Automatica was given to us. I don't much remember the details of the agreement now, but I can vouch for the fact that it was made, and that Ryan is not in fact making all this up. I'll have a look through the back posts if I have the time, but my best guess is that the treaty was lost to the EZAttack, since there's also a huge gap in the historical record right where all my Decrees were.Really? I thought we got Greater Automatica back in the Alexandros days, or Tymaria at the latest. You learn something new all the time. This being the case, I would have no objection to giving Ryan back GA if he wanted it.Quote:By the way, secession is illegal in Shireroth with the sole exception of if there is a treaty that permits it, and that is only if the Kaiser honors said treaty. Remember that the Kaiser has absolute power over all his subjects.I don't think that's the case. Consider a treaty between Hyperborea and Shireroth allowing Shireroth to annex it. This treaty stands as a multinational treaty, in the same way a treaty with Babkha stands as a multinational treaty. Sure, Hyperborea isn't actually there as a nation, but it's still a treaty partner. The Kaiser obviously can't edit a treaty made with Babkha by whim, because Babkha has no reason to agree to it. In the same way, if the Kaiser were to edit the treaty, that would by no means involve Hyperborean agreement, and since the treaty is still technically one between the two sovereign nations of Shireroth and Hyperborea (even though Hyperborea's not sovereign anymore) the treaty stands.

[Sir Iain de Vembria]

The purpose of my being a citizen in this nation was because I was personally invited to do so by Eoin some time ago. I could, of course, ask you a similar question with regard to your recent creation of Telikos, but I shall refrain from doing so.Furthermore, I believe it is entirely inappropriate for me to comment on any subject remotely related to Lac Glacei until such time as the situation is concluded one way or another. His Excellency the Chancellor of the Sovereign Order of TreesiaThe Right Honorable the Count of Lac Glacei

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

Considering Lac Glacei is no longer yours, that would probably be your best course of action.

[Bill3000]

Iain, do you consider yourself loyal to Shireroth first and formost over other nations? Because that's the entire purpose of being a citizen in this nation. Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of TelikosCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'No, you've changed too, Bill. Instead of being the fragmented, annoying and immature 16-year-old, you've graduated to being a well-spoken, annoying and immature 19-year-old. Congratulations.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);Edited by: Bill3000 at: 11/30/05 9:18

[Bill3000]

Quote:As neither party agreed to either treaty neither treaty is valid. Therefore Treesia and by extension the Grand Commonwealth returns to the previous position of claiming full sovereignty over Lac Glacei, specifically as set out by the Occidental Agreement. The arguement that Treesia forfitted Lac Glacei because of the interegnum between the end of the barony and the rise of the Sovereign Order is null and void therefore we assert our total right to the territory in question.Quote:B: Treatment of Annexed Lands1: Exclusion of Land from Annexationa. Whensoever a nation or polity is brought into Shireroth, all its lands and territories shall, unless otherwise arranged in the treaty or agreement of annexation, be considered Shirerithian lands.b. When, in a nation that is negotiating for annexation by Shireroth, there is a territory whose exclusion from that annexation might be desirable, such an exclusion must be explicitly stated in the final agreement.c. After the agreement is complete, all territories not excluded from the agreement shall be considered lawfully part of Shireroth, and claims to any of them shall not automatically be entertained.The only territory that has a legal right to be taken away from Shireroth outside of Kaiserial decree are those that had a treaty stating they could. This is in the Imperial Decreebook:Thus, Lac Glacei is part of Shireroth, as there is no treaty stating that it is part of Treesia. Period. To say otherwise (or more accurately, to actually act upon said opinion) is treason, unless the Kaiser decrees differently. This is not a matter Elwynn can decide, or the LAndsraad. By "Shireroth does not give up land", I mean exactly what I mean. Shireroth. Does. Not. Give. Up. Land. Period. Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of TelikosCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'No, you've changed too, Bill. Instead of being the fragmented, annoying and immature 16-year-old, you've graduated to being a well-spoken, annoying and immature 19-year-old. Congratulations.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);Edited by: Bill3000 at: 11/30/05 9:45

[Bill3000]

*notices Iain's title* Somebody change that ASAP.Quote:I could, of course, ask you a similar question with regard to your recent creation of Telikos, but I shall refrain from doing so.Roughly, Telikos is a micronational experiment to see if the concept will work. It's hard to even consider the concept of loyalty as it is not developed in any sense of the word by the nature of the nation. There are no foreign relations, no claim of land, few posts in the entire nation. It's too new to consider the concept of loyalty when there is nothing to delcare loyal to.The GC is a different matter altogether. You have shown time and time again that you are not loyal to Shireroth, and are more loyal to Treesia - prove me otherwise. You are infamous for your underhanded and successful attempts to grab territory for Treesia through legal loopholes - I have seen this, and pretty much everyone who has been active in Treesia at one time during its true reign can vouch for me. This just smells of an attempt to do the same. Bill Dusch - Archon of Soloralism - Founder of TelikosCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'No, you've changed too, Bill. Instead of being the fragmented, annoying and immature 16-year-old, you've graduated to being a well-spoken, annoying and immature 19-year-old. Congratulations.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);Edited by: Bill3000 at: 11/30/05 9:54

[UEC]

accualyl Bill.. I'm kinda with Iain on that question... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Shyriath]

*Taps Erik on shoulder, respectfully*If I might be so bold, I suggest that that not be brought up at just this time and place. We have other loyalties to argue here... and Telikon, whatever investment it may require from Bill, is not by any discernable means a challenge to Shireroth's territorial integrity.

[UEC]

okey dokey E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Shyriath]

Quote:Really? I thought we got Greater Automatica back in the Alexandros days, or Tymaria at the latest. You learn something new all the time. This being the case, I would have no objection to giving Ryan back GA if he wanted it.It might be that you're thinking of one of the two other things named Automatica... Lesser Automatica right next door, or the original Automatica over Kildare-way...