Marriage Recognition Treaty.

[Erik Mortis]

Would anyone be interested in an international treaty that let marriages (there are a few), that happen in one nation, be automatically recognized in all signatory nations? I know Shireroth law currently doesn't automatically recognize marriages in other nations. So we might need to fix that on our end if we wanted to sign.

Anyone?

[Maximilian]

The Batavian law recognizes marriages. I can imagine that some countries do not even recognize marriage at all, because it is useless in some nations.

Batavia does not, as far as I know, have any laws that give serious economical advantages (lower tax bills, shared goods) to married people. As soon as we introduce houses to our system, meaning you have to buy one because you have to have a place to live, married people must live in the same house. That would be the only economical advantage in some time. The only economical advantage that will exist in the future for married couples that have aare citizen of Batavia and are married in Shireroth is that they only have to buy one house in Batavia instead of two. The only real motive one would have in Batavia to marry another is cultural: the King is married to the Queen for logical reasons. Hence there are no other marriages in Batavia.

What I would like to know is if there are economical advantages. Furthermore I would like to know if Shireroth recognizes marriages between people of the same sex (Batavia does).

I do not see a reason why Batavia should sign such a treaty, but on the other hand I don't see a reason why we shouldn't. We would however need to change the law. I don't think the Lagerhuis would be happy to change the law for a treaty that does not have a noticable effect on the Batavian society.

[Malliki Tosha]

The Shirerithian marriage law is gender neutral and there are no economic advantages at the moment.

[Erik Mortis]

There are political ones though.

[Arviður]

Although we in Hurmu don't have any marriage laws at the moment, we would follow the interests of this matter closely.

There are some issues with marriage recognition.

If one country allows for same-sex marriages and another excludes that option, how is that solved in the differentcountries?

If one country has, by tradition or law, polygamous contracts, etc... then what?

This is rather a matter Hurmu thinks little about, but in the implications are enormous. Does a Shirerithian court have a right to grant divorce to a marriage conducted in Stormark?

I think it would be better to have a treaty on private international law, customs and conventions. The recognition of contracts, that is, whether they be of nuptial, business or of other character, we need a way to enforce contracts abroad. One should not be able to run away from one's obligations, especially within the common economy area.

[Erik Mortis]

Hmmm... I honestly didn't give this one that much thought. It's a bit more sticking then I suspected. While I'd personally like to think same-sex marriage wouldn't be an issue, I know some micronations would object on religious grounds. Same will multiple marriages. We in Shireroth are pretty laid back and don't really care about such things.

I'm not sure I can think of a solution to all these issues that would be able to work for a large majority of nations.

[Andreas the Wise]

I think there are two separate issues here. One is the recognition of legal contracts. That sounds like a good area for an international treaty, with the obvious corollary "Except where such contracts contradict domestic laws."

eg. A contract with the Guild of Assassins in Anqh-Morham may not be able to be taken to court in Nelaga, where murder is just murder and therefore illegal.

With this treaty, if two or more individuals wished to enter a contract called "Marriage" and stipulate various conditions upon themselves, it could be honoured in any signing nation.

The second issue is the specific institution of 'marriage' and any legal or ecconomic benefits conferred on people by that status. Because of the vast array of definitions for marriage (traditional, gender neutral, race neutral (eg Elf marrying Human), species neutral (we've all heard about those strange things that happen with sheep in Babkha), even life neutral (I'm sure I've heard of a madman marrying a waste paper basket), to try and put it in a treaty would be ... difficult, to say the least. I'd say the best path is for each individual nation that confers special legal or economic benefits to people with the status "married" to modify their own laws to recognise 'marriages' (as they define it) which have been conducted in other countries. Doing it as a treaty seems unnecessarily complicated when that matter could be solved far easier by changes to domestic laws.

In both of these issues, I would think you can only qualify for befits/defend contracts in nations in which you are a citizen. So if I (Gralan) do a contract with Nathan (Natopian), I could defend it in either the Gralan or Natopian court; but it would make no sense for me to defend it in a Batavian court, as neither of us are citizens in Batavia. Same with marriage (you can't really qualify for legal benefits to citizens if you're not a citizen ...).

[Aurangzeb Khan]

I think I agree with Andreas' notion that there should be a general treaty on contracts, and "marriage" would fall into that rubric.

[Erik Mortis]

I can agree to this.

[Maximilian]

I can also.

[Andreas the Wise]

In that case ... how about.

Small Commonwealth Contract Recognition Treaty
1. Any nation who has signed the Convention on the Establishment of a Commonwealth Court may sign this treaty.

2. All signatory nations agree to recognise all contracts freely entered into between their citizens and citizens of other signatory nations, with the exception of contracts which contravene their national laws at the time of the contract's signing.

3. In the case of a dispute over the contract, any of the nations of any of the recognised parties of the contract may hear the case. The case may also be heard by the Small Commonwealth Court.

4. This Convention may be amended by a qualified majority of the State Parties exceeding three fourths of the votes cast.

I don't know if 1 should be changed so they need to be in the SCUE too; or if they even do need to have signed the Commonwealth Court treaty. I've also probably worded it badly - so feel free to modify. But its something to work off.

[Erik Mortis]

the CC would proly be a good thing to make requisite for disputes. Though I could see some who might object. For sovereignty issues.

[Harvey Steffke]

I dunno. I'm kinda wishy-washy on this one. It's pretty vague. I know you're doing the best you can with the material, Andreas, but it just sounds like kind of a dangerous thing to agree to.