Random Thoughts

[Scott Alexander]

It seems to me that the past few weeks have been the culmination of a year-or-so long trend in Shirerithian culture. The rest of the world has stopped presenting much of a problem to us - they are being generally friendly right now - and our politics, such as they are, were settled back in last year. We now have all our energies - and with our new citizens and renewed activity, this is quite a bit - to spend on just plain improving Shireroth. And, like most such times, we have no idea where to begin.Shireroth has become a much more serious nation recently, in a good way. We've gotten a webpage up, opened relations with some very important nations, sworn off some things like recwars and spamwars, and given every job to someone qualified to hold it. I think this is very much a move in the right direction.But it seems safe to say that our resolving previously outstanding issues has also ushered away what used to be our primary sources of activity. The Landsraad hasn't seen a new post in almost two weeks, and it's been months since it was REALLY active. The Kaiser's Court is equally bare, and the whole cluster of military boards hasn't been posted on in over a month. We are blessed, unlike several other countries I could name, with an absence of internal conflict, but this blessing also means that we are going to have to find something else to do than squabble among ourselves.One problem we seem to have had is that we've gotten quite a few new immigrants, but they don't seem to find anything to do or have any reason to stay. I can sympathize with them, and am sort of at a loss to communicate the niftiness of micronationalism that I and so many others just inherently have a sense of. I don't think that's surprising. Many of us joined in eras when a day couldn't go by without someone founding a new micronation or declaring war on someone else or rebelling or spying or something, and we were drawn in. That's just not happening anymore. Without anything left to replace it, we lack the ability to hold newbies, especially since our system virtually bans them from significant involvement in politics. I am not advocating a return to previous times - we've matured beyond them, for better or worse, and though we remember them fondly, it is in the same sense that we remember playing tag fondly as children - something that was great while it lasted but which wouldn't work now.I see Shireroth moving towards something of a "peace footing" now. The most active parts of the country seem to be educational and literary pursuits, not to mention the riddle contest (with an honorable mention for the economy if it gets into full swing), and the government seems to be withering away in the best Marxist fashion. Is the future of Shireroth as just another discussion board? Probably not, but it would be best to figure out some sort of system that would make sure the government plays a useful role in the country's future.What can we do to give everyone, even new people, a role in politics, and to make politics more existent? What can we do to preserve the significance of our government? And what can we do to encourage nongovernmental organizations and stuff to continue forming and doing interesting stuff?

[Erik Mortis]

Well.. a development of the subdivisions would be nice. But not at the expense of national unity. I my self have been pondering ways and ideas to improve Alexandretta with Alex.. Not sure what will be the end result. And I could still go for a good game of tag... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Something that I see needs to be done is a Renaissance of sorts...something to push the government itself back to the forefront.And, like the United States, we need to find/create jobs, so that these new people have something to do. Perhaps a certain classification of jobs within the government that are takable by newcomers? Nothing incredibly important, maybe MiniSubs or something like that (MiniIntSub would be the assistant to the MiniInt or something like that).That's what I see. Remember, my child, without innocence, the cross is only iron, hope is only an illusion, and you're nothing but a name.

[Philip Locke]

People need incentives that benefit their person in order to go above and beyond. Everyone, especially micronationalists, love titles and honors and the like.That's what was so grand about Tymaria. Even the lowliest, most unimportant citizen was somehow a noble. A newbie of two weeks could be Duke of So-And-So or Baron-General of This-Or-That. It was almost impossible not to find a niche for yourself.If Shireroth is to really progress and grow then we must find a way to harnass megalomania and the lust for a slightly larger (or slightly more noble) signature. Now it's time to kick out the jams, motherfucker!

[SSFSX17]

The Corporate Republic of Norius (at pub119.ezboard.com/btheco...icofnorius if you want to see) seems to be a place of potentially high growth. I guess the reason why that is is because it's always possible to get to the top by hard work and/or force, and not just by being there longer than everyone else has. This admittedly could make things get violent, in which case you would have to do your best to beg for the respect of fundamental human decency.

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

SSFSX17: The thing is, we're working on Shireroth, not Norius. Remember, my child, without innocence, the cross is only iron, hope is only an illusion, and you're nothing but a name.

[Erik Mortis]

Thing is .. the limitation on jobs for new comers is only only on minister/nobles.. Not assistant ministries and lower. In theory you could be assistant minister of trade.. or maybe even a count in an unofficial county somewhere... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Well, I think that should be clarified. Remember, my child, without innocence, the cross is only iron, hope is only an illusion, and you're nothing but a name.

[Erik Mortis]

Yes.. it should be.. *to james...*TO THE FRONT GATE! *batman music comes on*DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH DAH FRONT GATE...Front Gate...front gate......*runs off* Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Zirandorthel]

I agree that the current system does not facilitate new citizens as well as it could. If you think about it, I'm the only one in the governmental system who isn't also a noble. The Landsraad are nobles, the Kaiser is by default a noble, the Minister are all nobles (or once were nobles). SSFSX, I agree with what you're saying. Norius is experiencing growth because it offers something that we are not, the ability to advance without being a member of a cadre or having been in the nation for years on end. In Shireroth especially, it's very easy to drift if you don't have something to do. That's what I found before I became Prætor, that I could go days without even thinking of Shireroth, and with the governmental system largely dormant, the part I have domain over anyway, it's the discussions in Hyperborea which keep me going. So we should have lots of little activities, like the subdivisions, yes, but for people who join micronations because politics interest them, we should also have an active Landsraad, which is a broader-ranging "activity" for all to experience. Sun Bless, Earth KeepZirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessNiirus Tinenetuwar, Tivitha e'TarasGrand Duke of Lac Glacei

[Gman Russell]

*laughs at Erik*Wacky little man... Scott, I think we need to ask more experienced, older nations for advice. If they survived... *shrugs* we might also

[david northworthy beckfor]

there arnt many older then this place "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Gman Russell]

What about the nation that honored Nick with knighthood? Weren't they older?

[Ari Rahikkala]

Maybe such nations do exist, but very few of them are *both* as funky and as active as Shireroth nowadays.. I spend my days enjoying the minty taste that surrounds Erik.

[Gman Russell]

Get DOWN and FUNKY!*plays dance music*

[SaiKar LumEth]

*smiles* Ah, the whole "nothing for newbies" to question is easily solved by Democracy. But you swore that off a LOOOONG time ago, so now you are running into these sorts of problems. It is hardly surprising. Do you remember all those "old school" micronationations that were around when Apollo still existed? I called them "Kingdoms of Boring" because, well, they WERE. The "king" just sits around all day, since all the laws were passed a long time ago. The ministers do their jobs, which more-or-less consist of sending messages like "Sure, you can join up as a citizen. Your jobs is to do... nothing." or "I am sorry, but you are not a serious enough nation. We do not want to associate with you." Everyone else just kinds of sits around and waits for the king to post some decree, usually on real life topics such as "abortion is now illegal".That is what Shireroth is becoming. Do you see it? Do you want it? More importantly, are you ready for it?

[Scott Alexander]

And how would democracy help if, as you say, all the laws were passed a long time ago?I don't think that having something equivalent to a House of Commons would be a bad idea, but I know far better than to ever propose it.

[SaiKar LumEth]

Every now and then you will find a random "tweak" to the system. They will be pretty boring compared to the huge changes took place in the past, but they ARE something for people to do. If you had a democracy, then it would give these bored newbies a voice.But plugging democracy was not really the point of my last post.

[Erik Mortis]

Democracy is unstable by default. At least with this system we are stable.. but... still... we need to work off that stable platform...That's why I propose at the front gate to bring back MiniInfo. We need Jobs.. we need companies that make tangible products.. Economy...Is on solution. We have the governmental stuff handled... one of the problems with ecoonomies is people get distracted by governmental stuff. Well.. we have govenrment stuff covered.. and now have extra people... myself included now... as I am niether noble nor minister. Though still politically active. I have niether station nor title in this nation. and.. it is kinda boring. I've been making work for myself. The University is another place were jobs can be found and made. I took on the task of 2 classes currently. Though one is stalled as I wait for some sources to diliver needed information for me to put together. Ministries.. bring forth Assistant ministers again. Get some assistant MiniEx's... Ambassadors. How bout we find someone who can speak french... german.. spanish.. portugues.. and go and spread our influence to those nations. I know before I left I opened a dialog with Reunion. I hope it continued. Ministers of Economy.Accountants! With an economy comes the need to keep track of money. Ministers, the Kaiser, the Landsraad, individuals, nobles... could hire others to keep track of their finances. BEfre Austi left. I was thinking about creating a new position in the Landsraad. Economic Assistant or soemthing. To keep track of the LAndsraad finances. (give an excuse for the Landsraad to use it's money too).. give suggestions on budgets... I see maybe 4 places off the bat were jobs can be found/created...EconomyAcademicMinisterialThese are 3 places where ALOT of jobs can be created. Economic is proly the least developed and used. I think we need to use it. I mean.. I would hire a personal accountant.. I suck at economy. And some of the ministers are overworked. MiniEx? MiniInt? (currently being done by one person)... MiniInt is the largest ministry...with the most tasks... but...so lacking of personel...One of things I was always proud about our system was our ability to grow and shink as needed. When we get really small... 1 person can run the nation(kaiser).. when we get bigger.. more people can run things.. spread out jobs.. (landsraad, ministers, nobles)I feel we need to get the Nobles more tasks. Nobles need to accually get off their duffs. (I won't fain innocence by says I was a active noble)Perhaps we should also start reducing the number of nobles who are also ministers...give more people a chance. Till now it's been ok. But we are kinda larger now than ever before.. and we need to use this population pool...or lose it.More later.. I must ponder somemore.. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

On the topic of jobs, KSHR is hiring. HTML authors (1-2 openings), air personalities (up to 3 openings), and foreign affairs officials (1 per nation).Oddly enough, I'm (hopefully) pushing the new economy and inciting activity, while boosting ratings.First newscast should be up within a week. Remember, my child, without innocence, the cross is only iron, hope is only an illusion, and you're nothing but a name.

[Scott Alexander]

I agree with SS, Eoin, and Harvey. While I do think there are a few things for new people to do, they seem too much like they're bones tossed out by the "ruling elite" to keep them happy rather than positions that give any actual power. There really doesn't seem to be any way for a new person to get involved in really influencing the affairs of the nation in a significant way rather than a "Here, you can do some of my work for me" way. Compare this to Babkha, where anyone can get elected to the Majlis if they can convince people to elect them, even though the system as a whole is still highly monarchic, or to Ascalon, in which there are highly active local governments, courts, and churches in which people can take positions that have an effect.I think the Norian economy will eventually provide an alternative to this, although I would argue that we should definitely wait to make sure it works elsewhere before adapting it. Could someone remind me whether the Praetor is elected by all Shirerithians or just by the Landsraad?

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Praetor is elected by the Landsraad, but it can be anyone in the nation.I think if and when we get an economy running, that will provide a much better "second hierarchy" within Shireroth. Government positions are not meant to be held by people who are new to micronations (as proven by Aure's Kaisership and Disappearance, or my own experience in Tymaria where I presented myself as the Senator and everyone said "Who IS this guy?").But an economic hierarchy would be slightly different. It would allow people to participate in Shireroth (and learn it's rules) without the problems of being in the seat of power.And for some reason, I can't elaborate further...My brain just turned off. So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.

[SaiKar LumEth]

I realize this is a lynchable offense, but I would say that Aure's Kaisership was a POSITIVE example of a new person in a powerful position. She did a few things strangly, but she did a lot of things right. Her "disappearance", as you would call it, was largely due to massive undue stress being put upon her by individuals and paries who will be be mentioned (or particularly blamed for what they did)As for economies... CoD2 is entering Beta Test mode on a different forum. After that, it will probably be available here... for free. So you can take your Erb toss it back into the internet ether for all I care.

[Gman Russell]

I also liked Aure's leadership... but i'm a liberal

[Rakesh86]

I think Aure is an example of the heights and pitfalls of micronationalism - her entire micronational history was seemingly a microcosm of what might happen or has already happened to many of us.Most of us left in our hobby are now veterans - and our societies have become more and more closed, as our friendships and our relationships between more established citizens have forced out the relative new people to our nation. Maybe we need to choose a new citizen to be Kaiser occassionally or run ministry or a duchy/barony. As a famous person once said - Make mistakes and live with them.

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

I didn't mean to say that Aure was bad, just that, well, she's not around anymore, is she? So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.

[Erik Mortis]

I rather learn from than live with mistakes.... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of AlexandrettaEdited by: Erik Mortis Brookshire at: 3/4/04 12:03 am

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Me too. So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.

[Erik Mortis]

I think people focuse to much on the government.. and I don't think that is where the changed or..whatever are needed... it almost sounds like people are talking about scraping or majorly modifying the system,....which is just evil... we finally found a good stable system... now...we just need to fill in details... I'm really starting to think it may be on the heads of the nobles and ministers to create the jobs needed. We don't need new imperial level govenment bodies.. no reformation of the Landsraad... no new house... But to develope what we have.. develope and organize the ministries.. and the subdivisions.. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Right. The government has stabilized: good, because when new things start being created, it will be able to handle them. What about media regulations? Will Shireroth have an FCC of sorts, to regulate KSHR? Or what about the Stock Market? MiniTrade, being formed, needs support. There's certainly lots of opportunity for growth there.The main point is, our government, being stable, will be capable of handling these complex issues. So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.