Flag Voting

[dr-spangle]

even then it is the creation of history, any destruction of history would be removing all record of the old flag and refusing to admit it existed

[Shyriath]

1. Ryan's Flag
2. Nick's Flag
3. Explosion Flag
4. Macedonian Flag
5. Iain's Flag
6. Artz's Flag
7. Bill's Flag
8. Assyrian Flag
9. Triangle Flag

It find it hard to disentangle my objective preference for a design from its resemblance to the old flag, hence the high placement of the Ryan, Nick, and Macedonian options. As for the Explosion Flag... that was a hard one, it really was, but objectivity won out there for for the most part, I think. It's a good, clean flag design, and if we end up having to move away from something more traditional, it'd be a decent choice. (And if we can say that the star represents exploding stuff, this is all to the good.)

[Archetype]

Is the original flag also open for voting by your citizens? If not maybe it should be some people who originally wanted a new flag may still favor it over the ones submitted. I like Scott's the most myself and Ryans a close second but was just adding a few cents for your own consideration.

[Malliki Tosha]

The winner here will face off against the old flag in the Landsraad.

[Archetype]

oh nevermind me then I was unaware of the entire process.

[Harvey Steffke]

1 - Explosion Flag
2 - Bill's Flag
3 - Triangle Flag
4 - Nick's Flag
5 - Iain's Flag
6 - Ryan's Flag
7 - Macedonian Flag
8 - Assyrian Flag
9 - Artz's Flag

[Malliki Tosha]

The explosion flag is winning.

[CJ Miller]

The explosion flag is winning.

[Malliki Tosha]

I think we should hold a second vote between the explosion flag and Ryan's flag, since the vote is so close.

[dr-spangle]

Then maybe a vote between the new and old flag, obviously? :P

[Malliki Tosha]

Yes, that vote would be in the Landsraad. I just think that since the vote here is so close, we should hold a second round, then the winner there would face the old flag in the Landsraad. No need to rush things.

[dr-spangle]

can't the new flag face the old one out here too? :P

[Malliki Tosha]

I suppose it could, but what would be the point of that?

[dr-spangle]

Checking people agree? :P

[Aurangzeb Khan]

At least we haven't made the flag proponents audition Simon Cowell style in order to get to the finals for the face off with the Old Time Flag.

[Malliki Tosha]

But why do we need to check whether people agree or not? I fail to understand. The Landsraad is where we vote on laws and stuff.

[Bill3000]

I think we should hold a second vote between the explosion flag and Ryan's flag, since the vote is so close.

Redundant using the ranged vote system we're using; the only thing it would mean is that there would remain a close vote unless votes changed and I thought you didn't want any more tactical votes.

can't the new flag face the old one out here too? :P

No, that would be stupid, and more importantly, ugly.

[Malliki Tosha]

YAY! Thanks for the suggestion Bill. I suggest we hold a closed poll between the explosion flag and Ryan's flag.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

There are eighteen votes and one position to fill, so ten votes (a simple majority) are needed to win.

In the first round, the votes are:

EREERRMETERRBEEREA

That's eight votes for Explosion, 6 votes for Ryan, and one each for Bill's, Triangle, Macedonian, and Artz. No flag reaches quota the first round. All flags with zero votes are insta-eliminated, and then as the first round elimination all flags with one vote are eliminated and changed to their next choice.

Ardy's choice changes from Macedonian to Ryan, Iain's changes from Triangle to Macedonian to Assyrian to Explosion, Wil's choice changes from Bill's to Explosion, and Maximillian's choice changes from Artz's to Iain's to Ryan's.

Votes are now:

EREERRREEERREEERER

That's ten votes for Explosion and eight for Ryan's. Explosion reaches the quota and wins the contest.

Malliki, the idea behind Single Transferrable Vote is that since we already know everyone's preference orderings, there's no need to hold another vote. We already know whether everyone prefers the Explosion Flag or Ryan's flag - we just check which one is ranked higher in their list. Unless you can tell me why the results would be different, I don't see why we should waste another week with another poll to get info we already have.

[Malliki Tosha]

I think the results could be different with a secret ballot, which you should have used from the beginning. That way, we wouldn't get the changing of votes due to pressure, or as a favor, or because you want the popular choice to win/lose. I also think that the result is so close to merit a second round of voting, even if we did use STV. I also fail to see time as an issue here. We've had the flag for ten years, one week more isn't going to hurt anyone.

[Bill3000]

I think the results could be different with a secret ballot, which you should have used from the beginning.

Secret ballots are for Cyberians and Atterans.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I considered a secret ballot, but I figured other people mightn't trust me to run it. I trust most people here, but no reason subjecting them to temptation. Under pressure, if lots of people want a secret ballot I'd be happy to let eg Ari do it.

Anyone besides Malliki think a secret ballot would be worth it?

[Malliki Tosha]

I think the results could be different with a secret ballot, which you should have used from the beginning.

Secret ballots are for Cyberians and Atterans.

Says the newly immigrated Antican.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Nah, mob has spoken. The Hippodrome has been torched and Hypatius is working on his alibi. Onto the Landsraad.

[Ryan]

No secret ballot!

If you feel strongly enough about something to vote for it, then stand by it.

[Shyriath]

Yar. On to the Landsraad.

[Gman Russell]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Change the flag because other people said it was ugly? I cannot think of a more shallow reason to change something so hallowed. I am thouroughly disgusted by this.

[Malliki Tosha]

You know, there are people that are voting for a change that think the flag is ugly.

[Gman Russell]

You don't just change a flag that's been around this long because it's 'ugly'. It's wrong. We're not even voting to change it for political or religious reasons, purely because of aesthetics. Regardless of whether you guys think it's ugly or not, that's a really shallow reason. I don't make strong statements often, but this is a line I am drawing in the proverbial sand. Citizens of Shireroth, I beg you reconsider what your doing. At the very least see how superficial this is! It sets a bad precedent for the future, it says that it is ok to change major parts of our country for no reason other than the fact it's ugly.

[CJ Miller]

You don't just change a flag that's been around this long because it's 'ugly'. It's wrong. We're not even voting to change it for political or religious reasons, purely because of aesthetics. Regardless of whether you guys think it's ugly or not, that's a really shallow reason. I don't make strong statements often, but this is a line I am drawing in the proverbial sand. Citizens of Shireroth, I beg you reconsider what your doing. At the very least see how superficial this is! It sets a bad precedent for the future, it says that it is ok to change major parts of our country for no reason other than the fact it's ugly.

*hits Gman with a moose*

Old flag is old. New Shireroth is new; therefore, we need a new flag.